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  1. #1

    Extra valor for dungeons

    I was just wondering, isn't that the wrong order?

    Level 90 players that use Dungeon Finder to look for a random Dungeon or Scenario will receive additional bonus Valor Points upon completing specific Dungeons or Scenarios.

    Dungeons
    Siege of Niuzao Temple: 5 bonus Valor Points
    Scholomance: 10 bonus Valor Points
    Shadow-Pan Monastery: 15 bonus Valor Points
    They seem to be taking the challenge mode time restriction for these dungeons as calculation basic.
    But when you take a look at the actual time needed the order is Scholo, Shadow-Pan, Siege - and not by small margins.

    This is also how I feel about those dungeons, I still won't do Siege with it's endless trash that you cannot easily chainpull like in scholo and it's rp events where you are waiting more than fighting for only 5 VP more.

  2. #2
    I just assumed it was based on some trend of people leaving those dungeons, similar to how they incentivized Oculus back in wrath because nobody would do it. So they saw some data that players were leaving early on those dungeons, and Niuzao was the least people doing it (but still higher than they wanted) and scholo and shado pan with a bit more each. Or it may just be that the actual time that people are doing those heroics in practice, was higher than other instances so they improved the valor/hr. for them.

    Personally I haven't really witnessed this happening, but then again I do very few heroic dungeons nowadays. And none of them are so long that it's worth getting deserter to avoid them. But I'll take the extra free valor anyway.

  3. #3
    They're all the same to me, so free valor is just an unexpected perk.

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  4. #4
    I agree that siege is the worst, but it's probably based on statistics on completion rates.

  5. #5
    These I never minded. But I will still leave Stormstout Brewery. Can't stand that place - even if they added more valor.

  6. #6
    Shado-Pans trash is relatively nasty, and was likely causing some wipes to casual/minimally geared players.
    Stormstout, the final boss just has too many hit points. Cut down all phase's health by 40% and that place wouldn't be bad.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Boogieknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neanoa View Post
    These I never minded. But I will still leave Stormstout Brewery. Can't stand that place - even if they added more valor.
    Truer words have never been spoken. I got so sick of that being my daily dungeon over, and over, and over, and over again I just don't run randoms anymore.
    Anyone else think Jaime Lannister only has the Kingslayer title because he was just too lazy to kill the king on heroic mode?

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    I still won't do Siege with it's endless trash that you cannot easily chainpull like in scholo and it's rp events where you are waiting more than fighting for only 5 VP more.
    Ever since I did Siege Challenge Mode, it has become one of the shortest heroics when you apply the CM strategies to heroic mode.

    You kill some 2 or 3 packs (can't tell off the top of my head right now), pull boss, he dies sooo quickly when you have stacks, you renew those stacks on the next pack of blobs, skipping the other trash by leaving the boss room through the other opening... You maintain those +dmg stacks (in heroic mode, 30 stacks are absolutely manageable to heal) until you arrive on the platform where the annoying scripted boss event takes place. Mobs up until that point just evaporate in a few GCDs when you have that resin residue stuff on you. The boss fight is annoyingly slow when you can't gong to speed it all up though, I'll give you that.

    When the pandaren opens the door, you avoid ALL trash and pull the boss at the far right corner. You clear the trash DURING the boss fight, using bombs. It was so hilariously funny to apply that strat to heroic mode because it's perfectly doable and a totally insane thing to do.

    Really REALLY short dungeon that way
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  9. #9
    5,10 or 15 extra Vp won't make a difference.
    I like scholo so i never leave when i get that one.
    I leave for siege, temple, stormstout and sometimes gate of the setting sun or the place with the mogu.
    Anoying trash, bosses and lore crap isn't what i want.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    Ever since I did Siege Challenge Mode, it has become one of the shortest heroics when you apply the CM strategies to heroic mode.

    You kill some 2 or 3 packs (can't tell off the top of my head right now), pull boss, he dies sooo quickly when you have stacks, you renew those stacks on the next pack of blobs, skipping the other trash by leaving the boss room through the other opening... You maintain those +dmg stacks (in heroic mode, 30 stacks are absolutely manageable to heal) until you arrive on the platform where the annoying scripted boss event takes place. Mobs up until that point just evaporate in a few GCDs when you have that resin residue stuff on you. The boss fight is annoyingly slow when you can't gong to speed it all up though, I'll give you that.

    When the pandaren opens the door, you avoid ALL trash and pull the boss at the far right corner. You clear the trash DURING the boss fight, using bombs. It was so hilariously funny to apply that strat to heroic mode because it's perfectly doable and a totally insane thing to do.

    Really REALLY short dungeon that way
    While this is a funny story, and probably works perfectly fine if you are in a guild group, it will never work in lfg. If you pull more than one group at the start, you can be sure the tank gets ambered and won't be debuffed. Additionally, if you simply try to chainpull, you will have lost all stacks until you reached the next group, because I can count the DDs that pulled more than 40k dps in my previous week lfgs on the finger of one hand.

    Avoiding all trash is also funny, because usually you won't manage to skip the first trash pack when the door opens, there is always someone adding. When he realizes all others all gone, he will just come to you and not only add the first group, but also the patrolling one.

    And you don't really think any random would use bombs on trash? You can be happy if anyone even knows what to do with the bombs, and doesn't simply stand beside them when they explode.

    While I really imagine this would be a fun strategy, it won't work with randoms. And short is relative, even the quickest challenge mode run there was over 12 minutes, and therefore still the longest dungeon available, while there also are many dungeons that can be done in 6 minutes.

  11. #11
    Herald of the Titans Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    While this is a funny story, and probably works perfectly fine if you are in a guild group, it will never work in lfg. If you pull more than one group at the start, you can be sure the tank gets ambered and won't be debuffed. Additionally, if you simply try to chainpull, you will have lost all stacks until you reached the next group, because I can count the DDs that pulled more than 40k dps in my previous week lfgs on the finger of one hand.

    Avoiding all trash is also funny, because usually you won't manage to skip the first trash pack when the door opens, there is always someone adding. When he realizes all others all gone, he will just come to you and not only add the first group, but also the patrolling one.

    And you don't really think any random would use bombs on trash? You can be happy if anyone even knows what to do with the bombs, and doesn't simply stand beside them when they explode.

    While I really imagine this would be a fun strategy, it won't work with randoms. And short is relative, even the quickest challenge mode run there was over 12 minutes, and therefore still the longest dungeon available, while there also are many dungeons that can be done in 6 minutes.
    I do what Seriss describes all the time in LFD, when I'm the tank. If some guy pulls adds and dies I juts carry on without him. Only need the healer anyway, and even the healer is only needed for one part of the instance (the 3 packs at once while fighting the boss). They can catch up.

    It's still an extremely boring instance, though, because of the stupid unskippable RP event, so I still leave it unless I'm in a particularily amicable mood at the time.

    I love scholomance, though. No bullshit RP, or gauntlet events with dummy trash, just pure chainpulling every single trash mob between one boss and the next one, from one boss to the next, and half the time you can do the boss while you're still fighting the trash (dat vengeance). My favourite instance.

    I really don't get why they keep adding stupid unskippable RP events to their instances. didn't they learn anything from stratholme? Why do they make us sit there and wait for shit to spawn for up to several minutes? Why? What's the point? I seriously don't understand it.
    Last edited by Simulacrum; 2013-02-06 at 04:23 PM.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by szandos View Post
    I agree that siege is the worst, but it's probably based on statistics on completion rates.
    Or, perhaps, stats on average time to complete the instance.
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  13. #13
    Mechagnome TrollShaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Or, perhaps, stats on average time to complete the instance.
    I think it's because of this. But it doesn't really matter to me since more bosses means more JP and disenchantables, and now, valor (even if only a slight increase).

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by neanoa View Post
    These I never minded. But I will still leave Stormstout Brewery. Can't stand that place - even if they added more valor.
    Same. Stormstout is the only heroic I always ditch upon zoning in. I can't stand that place. I queue as tank, so my queues are mostly instant. If I get stormstout, I just leave.

    Endlessly spawning trash that you can't loot, dull scenery, and boring/cheesy bosses. The whole place gives me a massive headache, especially the endless vermin aggro sounds and the incredibly dull, slowly spawning, and repetitive wave of trash (that goes on for far, far too long and takes longer than the rest of the dungeon) before the final boss. It's just plain not fun. Would rather eat the deserter debuff 10 times out of 10.

    I really don't mind any other heroics this xpac. They're all pretty playable. I enjoy them.
    Last edited by Coldhearth; 2013-02-07 at 11:15 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    Avoiding all trash is also funny, because usually you won't manage to skip the first trash pack when the door opens, there is always someone adding. When he realizes all others all gone, he will just come to you and not only add the first group, but also the patrolling one.
    That's why I'm pulling all the thrash on mount. Just run straight to the boss. Then you just have to survive until the first bomb phase, but with the gear its easy.

  16. #16
    They should just add the gong to normal mode Siege too. Waiting on that boss is the most annoying part of that instance.

  17. #17
    Haven't they learned that players don't like scripted encounters ever?

  18. #18
    I find shado-pan hard to heal if I got a shit group (2nd last boss, that Sha type boss sucks with 3 bad dps'eres doing like 25-30k each tops), so glad that atleast got a buff. Also the trash pack going to the boss is tough.

    My alt is also wearing barely any gear, cause cba gear it when I'll pvp with it soon
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  19. #19
    Those instances are longer than others, thus they get bonus VP. Seems fair. I can do scarlet dungeons in 5-8 minutes with a guild group, GSS in 5 minutes, and brewery in 7-8. But Scholomance is so long, with so many bosses, that it oftenly takes +10, siege has the scripted boss that makes it slow as fuck, and shado pan is both long AND has a scripted, time limiting gauntlet.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightelfsb View Post
    I find shado-pan hard to heal if I got a shit group (2nd last boss, that Sha type boss sucks with 3 bad dps'eres doing like 25-30k each tops), so glad that atleast got a buff. Also the trash pack going to the boss is tough.

    My alt is also wearing barely any gear, cause cba gear it when I'll pvp with it soon
    So you are saying its hard to heal when the DPS are doing 25-30k DPS each, but then you say you are badly geared? Ever thought its your gear that makes it hard to heal and not the DPS?

    Healing in heroics is a joke.

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