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  1. #201
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    You're right, I forgot, $10-15 billion is pretty meaningless.
    Depends on what their impact is. If the subsidies are a large percentage of that funding, then they're not meaningless. If they're a small percentage, then they are relatively meaningless.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Thanks for the laugh - showing you haven't read what I've wrote and want to stuff words in my mouth. Great first impression. No where have I bolstered Fox and said it's fair and balanced, nor any other news network for that matter.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Saying something doesn't make it true. Feel free to look up definitions for both left and rational and map them to the conversation. Pelosi's ACTIONS show she is far left. I use reason, you should, too. Please don't color what is actually written with what you THINK is written (ie: saying I've bolstered fox because I linked to it.)

    Center left at the most she is not a communist or a socialist dont even try to go there. She tells the facts as they are and of course the far right goes all ballistic on facts, hint: they always do that

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by araine View Post
    We do NOT have a spendind problem we have still a very very BIG revenue problem.
    Good bye. Thank you for showing a lack of understanding the US's current financial state. It's much easier to filter out who I should spend time responding to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about having lots and lots of sex that means you're going to have a kid.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Neither of those are "facts", and b) is just flat-out wrong.

    A "fact" is something that is objectively true. In reference to the budget, that would be to say that spending is at X dollars, or has increased by Y%, or the like. The moment you label that a "problem", you are stating an opinion, not a fact.

    And cutting the budget is clearly not the only solution. You can either cut spending, or increase revenue. Increasing revenue is clearly also an option, you're just refusing to acknowledge it for some reason you've never stated.
    You do realize that they can tax every single person making over $250,000, and every single corporation at 100%, and it still isn't enough to cover what is currently going out right now. WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM!

  5. #205
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Repeating it in caps doesn't make it more true.

  6. #206
    I saw your ideas. They stink of elitism and counter productivity. Im not a druggie, but I am very, very tired of this imaginary war on drugs. You want people drug tested for gov't aid? Fine, make a way to do it without bleeding fed, state, and local funds. And what would qualify as "necessities" to you? People like you are focused on the negatives, the ones cheating the system, while dismissing the people who dont abuse the system and deserve some help.

    If we could see the future, we'd have the answers. But we dont. Our society isnt special. Our country isnt special. Ranting and raving, naming and shaming, and throwing personal agendas into your "ideas" wont help. It never has.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Neither of those are "facts", and b) is just flat-out wrong.

    A "fact" is something that is objectively true. In reference to the budget, that would be to say that spending is at X dollars, or has increased by Y%, or the like. The moment you label that a "problem", you are stating an opinion, not a fact.

    And cutting the budget is clearly not the only solution. You can either cut spending, or increase revenue. Increasing revenue is clearly also an option, you're just refusing to acknowledge it for some reason you've never stated.


    And before anyone posts some nonsense about the Laffer curve and how increasing taxation will hurt revenue, most reputable economists who aren't flogging a political agenda are in agreement that the US is on the left side of the Laffer curve with regards to taxation, so increasing taxation would increase revenue, which isn't surprising, given that US tax rates are pretty low overall relative to other nations.
    It's unfortunate mods can't be put on ignore. The US has already increased revenue earlier this year. We JUST did that, I can't say it enough. What's left are cuts.

    Fact A) Budget in the red = spending problem

    Fact B) What's left as far as options for paying off debt is cutting the budget.

    You can't say those are wrong. It's reality.
    Last edited by cutterx2202; 2013-02-11 at 05:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about having lots and lots of sex that means you're going to have a kid.

  8. #208
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    You're right, I forgot, $10-15 billion is pretty meaningless.
    You really didn't look at the data, did you? It's broken down by state.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.

    Cycling Logs: 2012, 2013, 2014 (YTD-9.30).

  9. #209
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Thanks for the laugh - showing you haven't read what I've wrote and want to stuff words in my mouth. Great first impression. No where have I bolstered Fox and said it's fair and balanced, nor any other news network for that matter.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. Saying something doesn't make it true. Feel free to look up definitions for both left and rational and map them to the conversation. Pelosi's ACTIONS show she is far left. I use reason, you should, too. Please don't color what is actually written with what you THINK is written (ie: saying I've bolstered fox because I linked to it.)
    I believe you don't know the definition of far left..
    Pelosi is left. Where's that a secret? She's a member of the democrats. Her opinion happens to be in a disagreement with your opinion.
    For all it's worth here, you have a right to your opinion. But that's about all there is to it. It's an opinion, and not a fact.
    And where a person stands within it's wing has zero relation to where yours it.
    She could be as well center democrat and you are rather farther right.... Which, with all due respect, is what I suspect here.
    A center Republican is someone like, Chris Christie....... Center.... The place where people from both sides of the aisle blurring the line..
    Those are usually the most productive and most efficient politicians we have in Congress. They don't have a problem with ignoring partisanship.
    Pelosi isn't very far away from that block. Yet I still trust her judgement a lot more than yours. You try to deliver "facts" which aren't facts to begin with.

    And why would you put someone on ignore, just because they disagree with you?
    Wouldn't you misuse the forums for your own likes in that case? Eliminating, censoring everyone and everything you don't agree with?
    What's the point of creating a thread then? You opening threads to only invite everyone who shares your ideas?
    Not only is that pretty boring, but also do we not need such treads... in that case, they should be shut down again.

    I don't always agree with Endus, and have told him that on other occasion too.. But I would never ignore him. That would be irrational on so many levels. Often enough he has great contributions, which I can agree on with ease. That's the beauty of democracy and free speech. You fail these concepts?
    Last edited by Wildtree; 2013-02-11 at 05:48 PM.

  10. #210
    As much as I want to contribute to the discussion, reading your posts just makes me cringe cutter. You have to be the epitome of the self-centered guy. Why create a thread like this when you refuse to debate with anyone who disagrees with you (even those who bring up facts)? Are you just trying to fill up your ignore list?

    Before you make a post oh-so-nicely alerting me that I'm on your ignore list - I already expect that coming. I don't think I ever want to converse with you, ever - so feel free to do so.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    You can't disprove facts, FYI. No one has disproved anything I've said, and they still make it to ignore. I find it hilarious you see the conversation going that way. All I've stated are facts you can look up. A) we have a big spending problem b) all that's left to try and remedy that is cutting the budget.

    See the update OP.
    Yes you have been disproven many times and you can't see them because you have half of the posters on this thread on ignore. That is why you can't see them. Grow up kid, stop fighting a losing battle from behind an ignore feature. Its already been lost by you. You don't provide sources for half of your claims and then cry foul when someone posts a link disproving your claim.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 05:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Good bye. Thank you for showing a lack of understanding the US's current financial state. It's much easier to filter out who I should spend time responding to.
    LOL another one ignored? When will I make that list? Seems you don't want a real conversation.

  12. #212
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsdaleHokie View Post
    You do realize that they can tax every single person making over $250,000, and every single corporation at 100%, and it still isn't enough to cover what is currently going out right now. WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM!
    If we go by just the 1%, they pay ~37% of income tax revenue. Total revenue from income tax in 2012 was $1,132b dollars, so 37% of that is ~$420 billion.

    Double taxes on the wealthy, that's $420 billion. Double taxes on corporations, that's another $242 billion. So $660 billion in additional revenue.

    (numbers taken from here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget)

    Nobody's arguing that increasing revenue is all that's necessary. Even the Democrats are talking about spending cuts. The issue is, the Republicans are demanding that revenue increases be off the table. That's unconscionable. The ONLY reason to support that is because you're working for those who have money to take. They're serving the interests of the 1% at the expense of the USA itself, and the remaining 99% of Americans. Wealth inequality is higher than it's been since the Great Depression. That's not a good thing.

    I agree that there is a spending problem, but that's still an opinion, not a fact. That was the point. And the idea that the only possible solution to said problem is spending cuts? No, that's a flat-out lie.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnrage View Post
    As much as I want to contribute to the discussion, reading your posts just makes me cringe cutter. You have to be the epitome of the self-centered guy. Why create a thread like this when you refuse to debate with anyone who disagrees with you (even those who bring up facts)? Are you just trying to fill up your ignore list?

    Before you make a post oh-so-nicely alerting me that I'm on your ignore list - I already expect that coming. I don't think I ever want to converse with you, ever - so feel free to do so.
    I didn't create the post to fill up my ignore list. I created it so we can have a common ground to start talking about actions that need to be taken. What it's turned into is people denying reality. I'm not going to entertain that or waste time on that. I haven't ignored any facts. I'll talk to someone that's accepted the reality that there's a spending problem and we need to pay off our debt. That should be a common meeting ground. The arguments should be WHAT to cut, not whether we need to cut, which is a forgone conclusion (or is for any rational person).
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about having lots and lots of sex that means you're going to have a kid.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    It's unfortunate mods can't be put on ignore. The US has already increased revenue earlier this year. We JUST did that, I can't say it enough. What's left are cuts.

    Fact A) Budget in the red = spending problem

    Fact B) What's left as far as options is cutting the budget.

    You can't say those are wrong. It's reality.
    The cuts will happen. Remember the debt ceiling debate approches. Also, techinically domestically we do not have a spending problem. Before the Bush cuts we were budget balanced. But with the cut, revenue fell out but spending stayed the same domestically (it did not increase). Our foreign spending increased due to the two wars (which are drawing down now) and Intelligence expense after 9/11 (which we need to look at). Meaning you really have to cut defense, and eliminate tax breaks for all classes to get the revenue back to normal. If Bush did not happen, we would not be having tax problem and maybe some spending problem (wars were inevitable, maybe Iraq was not). The blame also lies with Clinton. His NAFTA screwed our economy greatly and is responsible for balance of power change toward hispanics in this country (cheap american agriculture destroyed farming of every NAFTA countries, which sent them to imigrate here for work, increasing the hispanic population.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Yes you have been disproven many times and you can't see them because you have half of the posters on this thread on ignore. That is why you can't see them. Grow up kid, stop fighting a losing battle from behind an ignore feature. Its already been lost by you. You don't provide sources for half of your claims and then cry foul when someone posts a link disproving your claim.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 05:47 PM ----------


    LOL another one ignored? When will I make that list? Seems you don't want a real conversation.
    . You guys can stop trying to bait me into a ban, it's not my first time in this rodeo. I know how you "people" work. Just keep repeating that I'm baseless and attacking people, even though it's nowhere to be found and soon enough the perception will stick and sheeple will follow you. Make a "report" on some whatever post you want and I'll get infracted for it because it's in the bag. It's happened before and I'm making a huge ignore list so it doesn't happen again. I'm just not going to respond to the trolls that are incapable of having a real debate, or, in this thread's case, come together on a simple common fact simply because I'm the conservative enemy.
    Told you so. Stop playing games and please comment on the topic.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 05:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If we go by just the 1%, they pay ~37% of income tax revenue. Total revenue from income tax in 2012 was $1,132b dollars, so 37% of that is ~$420 billion.

    Double taxes on the wealthy, that's $420 billion. Double taxes on corporations, that's another $242 billion. So $660 billion in additional revenue.

    (numbers taken from here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...federal_budget)

    Nobody's arguing that increasing revenue is all that's necessary. Even the Democrats are talking about spending cuts. The issue is, the Republicans are demanding that revenue increases be off the table. That's unconscionable. The ONLY reason to support that is because you're working for those who have money to take. They're serving the interests of the 1% at the expense of the USA itself, and the remaining 99% of Americans. Wealth inequality is higher than it's been since the Great Depression. That's not a good thing.

    I agree that there is a spending problem, but that's still an opinion, not a fact. That was the point. And the idea that the only possible solution to said problem is spending cuts? No, that's a flat-out lie.
    Sorry, Endus, I can't work with you anymore. A red budget is a reality, not an opinion. The single option is fact, unless you have something else besides spending more, taxing more, regulating more, etc that hasn't already been tried. (emphasis on taxing more has JUST BEEN DONE, please grasp that. I see you're from Canada so you may not be up to speed on our happenings, but we just increased taxes, as in last month.)
    Double taxes on the wealthy, that's $420 billion. Double taxes on corporations
    That will never happen in America. A progressive tax is already borderline unconstitutional here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about having lots and lots of sex that means you're going to have a kid.

  16. #216
    Yes, we realize that you are an avid watcher of Fox News and believe every lie they feed you, but anyone that believes cutting the budget is the only way to balance the budget is so short sighted I could call them legally blind. It's a thinly veiled piece of propaganda to make the uninformed believe that raising taxes and cutting tax loopholes for the wealthy will do nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZK203 View Post
    Just have a sig that says "I'm Batman."

  17. #217
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    It's unfortunate mods can't be put on ignore.
    Self-censoring the conversation to create what appears to be an echo chamber that agrees with you is . . . weird.

    Fact B) What's left as far as options for paying off debt is cutting the budget.

    You can't say those are wrong. It's reality.
    No, "fact" B is false. Increasing revenue is clearly still an option. And Obama hasn't raised taxes. There was a temporary tax reduction that was set to expire, restoring a tax to its normal rate, and that happened. That's not a tax increase, or a change to increase revenue, that was a predetermined expiry of a temporary reduction. Tax increases are obviously still on the table. Republicans don't WANT tax increases, but that's by no means the same thing.

  18. #218
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Self-censoring the conversation to create what appears to be an echo chamber that agrees with you is . . . weird.
    Yeah, I only ignore people if they're being offensive.

  19. #219
    "I'm going to ignore everyone who doesn't agree with me," is a fast way to put everyone on ignore. I think he'll be talking to himself soon enough.

    OP, I'm pretty certain there are plenty of right wing forums elsewhere on the internet where you can find a plethora of avid Fox News watchers that will agree with you, and you can preach to the choir all day and hear them say "amen".
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZK203 View Post
    Just have a sig that says "I'm Batman."

  20. #220
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutterx2202 View Post
    Sorry, Endus, I can't work with you anymore. A red budget is a reality, not an opinion. The single option is fact, unless you have something else besides spending more, taxing more, regulating more, etc that hasn't already been tried. (emphasis on taxing more has JUST BEEN DONE, please grasp that. I see you're from Canada so you may not be up to speed on our happenings, but we just increased taxes, as in last month.)
    That wasn't a tax increase. That was the expiry of the payroll tax holiday from the Tax Relief Act in 2011. It was supposed to last a year, but was extended twice. It wasn't extended a third time, and that's why taxes went up in January, as the payroll tax returned to normal levels.

    This wasn't a tax hike. It was the expiry of a tax break. You're phrasing things in a deliberately misleading manner, and I'd thank you to not imply that I must be ignorant because I'm Canadian.

    That will never happen in America. A progressive tax is already borderline unconstitutional here.
    Not even a little. The Sixteenth Amendment and SCOTUS have been pretty excruciatingly clear on the matter.

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