Page 1 of 11
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,602

    Why is what Jaina's done okay but Sylvanas not?

    I keep hearing people call Jaina stupid evil or crazy and it kind of leaves me boggled.

    I mean she did had a pretty natural reaction to her city and people being blown up and basically having the last few years of her life mean -nothing- because despite all the attempts for peace she made over the years, and then after Aethas say 'welp that'll never happen again!' she has sunreavers abuse dalarans neutrality -again- to steal the divine bell even after he'd sworn up and down he'd have a better handle on them, it made him look pretty complacent and callous, so while the purge was -harsh- it was hardly unjustified imo.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Rheckameohs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Tallahassee
    Posts
    481
    ... Horde favoritism?

    Hell if I know, I personally think Sylvanas should die.
    CPU: Intel Core i5-4670k 3.4GHz | RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro 32GB DDR3-1866 | GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 760 4GB (2-Way SLI) | Motherboard: MSI Z87-G45
    Cooling: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler; 200mm Fans x3; | Case: HAF 922 | PSU: Corsair Pro 750W

    80+ FPS in Raids on Ultra. Stay mad.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    3,778
    I don't think the actions Sylvanas did were looked upon being "okay"... Garrosh himself already told her to stop with the new plague, or something >.<

    Another thing is that, people are kinda used to what Sylvanas is doing. But seeing Jaina do these things to dalaran, kinda shocked people I guess, as she wasn't really known for holding grudges and stuff.

  4. #4
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    9,544
    Too many fanboys in love with Sylvannas to have anything bad happen to her or the forsaken, at least permanently.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Ruhenheim
    Posts
    2,665
    Nobody said what Sylvanas has done is "okay". Sylvanas is largely regarded as a dark character, not to say downright evil, so the expectations really aren't the same.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Terahertz View Post
    I don't think the actions Sylvanas did were looked upon being "okay"... Garrosh himself already told her to stop with the new plague, or something >.<

    Another thing is that, people are kinda used to what Sylvanas is doing. But seeing Jaina do these things to dalaran, kinda shocked people I guess, as she wasn't really known for holding grudges and stuff.
    Most folks on the forums have a hard time conceptualizing loss on any meaningful scale, friends, neighbors, and family members die from things like drunk driving or cancer, one or two at a time, many years apart.

    Not violently en masse in wartime.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tempest Keep
    Posts
    2,807
    oughta have the both of em as bosses in SoO, pull in a new set of more level headed leaders

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Too many fanboys in love with Sylvannas to have anything bad happen to her or the forsaken, at least permanently.

    I'd love to call this a troll answer...but I can't. If it had been Sylvanas in Jaina's place she'd have just killed everyone, then rezzed them back to serve her...or just kill them again. And you know what? Her fans would be rabidly defending her actions.

    Also what Terahertz said. People seem to want her to be the mother Teresa of WoW, forgiving people for everything. The way the Alliance side of 5.1 plays out, with her telling you how she wrestles with her anger everyday lets you know that the anger is still there, she's just keeping it in check for the sake of the greater good. The thought of people willingly placing another weapon on par with the iris in Garrosh's hands was just too much for her to handle.
    STRESS
    The confusion caused when one's mind
    overrides the body's basic
    desire to choke the living shit out of
    some jerk who desperately needs it

  9. #9
    This subject is really frustrating me. In movies, do you always root for the good guy? Books? Do you know anyone, personally who hasn't done something questionable? Why does someone have to be good to be rooted for. This is a video game. If you want people to stop liking Sylvanas then go back in time and remove her from one of the few pieces of WoW lore even non-lore fans know. She is popular because she is interesting. Being a negotiating "middle man" is not, in the slightest bit interesting.

  10. #10
    This is why we have laws and a justice system in our civilization along with checks and balances. Emotional distress after a tragic event does not excuse extreme actions. It doesn't matter if you are an individual or the leader of a nation.

    But when Jaina went after Orgrimmar, she was rewarded with the highest honor in the Kirin Tor. Somehow she would be immune to further turmoil. Aethas was like, "Nah it's cool. You can't possibly be tempted to vengeance again." Boy did that bite him in the ass.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-02-11 at 06:04 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzingtakin View Post
    This subject is really frustrating me. In movies, do you always root for the good guy? Books? Do you know anyone, personally who hasn't done something questionable? Why does someone have to be good to be rooted for. This is a video game. If you want people to stop liking Sylvanas then go back in time and remove her from one of the few pieces of WoW lore even non-lore fans know. She is popular because she is interesting. Being a negotiating "middle man" is not, in the slightest bit interesting.
    I liked Sylvanas when she was competent and had depth.

    Silverpine and her short story removed both of thosethings.

    My issue is not that sylvanas is not 'good'.

    My issue is people that don't acknowledge that she lets things go on in her nation that are -evil- and she doesn't -care- and they try to portray her as 'misunderstood' or something.

    She's not.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  12. #12
    Well, these things fall into several category.

    Everyone has differant moral views:

    Jaina & Sylvanas approach things in a completely different mind set, and do things that sometimes tend to be controversial. Sylvanas tends to take a warrior path, and will use everyone and everything to secure her own future, and those who follow her. Jaina tries to use a logical path. Of late it is harder due to the emotional stress, and trauma. She seeks to protect her people against another attempt to wipe them out. Both Sylvanas and Jaina were forced to watch helplessly to tragedy. Jaina: Arthas, and Daelin. Sylvanas: Loss of her family, and her people. They ironically mirror each other in a similar way. Both Sylvanas and Jaina use extreme of late to secure their future. Which is why you see people on both sides calling for their deaths. In terms of tallies, Jaina has less than Sylvanas in terms of morally grey and possibly evil actions. In time, this will rise until she seeks her need for vengeance complete. Edit: A contributing factor is that some people are very extreme if there my enemy, then they are all evil! Note: I have met people like this on both sides. Not blaming either side.


    Another possible reason: This change is so sudden for Jaina, some people may think she will go back to old jaina after 5.4
    Last edited by eillas; 2013-02-11 at 06:20 AM.
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    I liked Sylvanas when she was competent and had depth.

    Silverpine and her short story removed both of thosethings.

    My issue is not that sylvanas is not 'good'.

    My issue is people that don't acknowledge that she lets things go on in her nation that are -evil- and she doesn't -care- and they try to portray her as 'misunderstood' or something.

    She's not.
    If it comes to serving her peoples continued existence, she did the right thing. I've argued before that she is one of the more lenient leaders because she, for the most part, lets the Forsaken choose whatever path they wish to take. Even if it is defecting. There is a price to pay for having that freedom. She had to squash some bugs, and fix some things.

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord Haven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Russia
    Posts
    8,597
    Because Jaina is good and Sylvanas is evil, duh. It's that deep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Metzenphrenia. As defined in the DSM: "To be so badly written, that it drives the character into insanity." It's symptoms are similar to schizophrenia but even crazier.
    "There are no answers, only choices" - Solaris.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,602
    Quote Originally Posted by Blitzingtakin View Post
    If it comes to serving her peoples continued existence, she did the right thing. I've argued before that she is one of the more lenient leaders because she, for the most part, lets the Forsaken choose whatever path they wish to take. Even if it is defecting. There is a price to pay for having that freedom. She had to squash some bugs, and fix some things.
    Thing is, she doesn't -care- about her people. She flat out sees them as a means to keep herself alive. If it came down to the good of her people or -herself- she'd pick herself every time. She'd sacrifice every forsaken just to get one more shot at life after her Val'kyr run out.

    And while yes, she was very lenient before Godfrey... I dunno if she'll be treating forsaken with such lenience afterwards.
    You are now future Jack Noir.

    Presently, you are trapped in a single moment, which increasingly feels like an eternity. Your boredom is surpassed only by your all consuming rage and contempt for existence itself.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Thing is, she doesn't -care- about her people. She flat out sees them as a means to keep herself alive. If it came down to the good of her people or -herself- she'd pick herself every time. She'd sacrifice every forsaken just to get one more shot at life after her Val'kyr run out.

    And while yes, she was very lenient before Godfrey... I dunno if she'll be treating forsaken with such lenience afterwards.
    Very true, although we may see some emotional plot change should the Windrunner reunion happen. I know at least one sister isn't going to emerge the same way again.
    '"Can your blood atone for genocide, orc? Your Horde killed countless innocents with its rampage across Stormwind and Lordaeron. Do you really think you can just sweep all that away and cast aside your guilt so easily? No, your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you."
    - Grand Admiral Proudmoore

  17. #17
    i don't think most people consider what sylvanas dos is "okay" from amoral standpoint, but the reason some people like her and her actions is because she gives warcraft that darker tone that seems to have mostly disappear nowadays. Today Warcraft story is just really "badguy comes and dos evil thing, we kill badguy everyone is happy, yay!" which is really lame and bad storytelling in most cases.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Swimming in a fish bowl
    Posts
    2,658
    Considering the Lich King was the most evil villain in the WoW universe that we've faced so far (DW being the most destructive, not the most evil) and Sylvanas hated him for the same reason most of the WoW-World did... because he tortued peoples' souls, yet she employed the only lasting creatures left after Arthas was dethroned in order to do the same thing to falling Human corpses, that she HATED Arthas/LK for.... I don't know.

    Thing is, I kinda love Sylvanas for being this way...

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  19. #19
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Ruhenheim
    Posts
    2,665
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Thing is, she doesn't -care- about her people. She flat out sees them as a means to keep herself alive. If it came down to the good of her people or -herself- she'd pick herself every time. She'd sacrifice every forsaken just to get one more shot at life after her Val'kyr run out.

    And while yes, she was very lenient before Godfrey... I dunno if she'll be treating forsaken with such lenience afterwards.
    I have a feeling Sylvanas is already a puppet to a much dark power. Blizz has already said something very dark resides under the Tirisfal Glades. Wherever Koltira was dragged off to to be "purged of his compassion" I have feeling we'll find the true source of evil.

    My guess is it has to do with the Burning Legion and more specifically Sargeras since the only remaining old god is suppose to be under the sea where Queen Azshara is.

    Also, during some cinematic (WLK opening I think) I remember Therenas say: "the very forest whispered your name: Arthas" or something like that. I always liked to think that was meant literally because there's indeed something dark there.
    Last edited by Arganis; 2013-02-11 at 06:42 AM.

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Vineland, Cumberland, NJ, USA
    Posts
    2,600
    I haven't seen any Forsaken story at all in Mists so far. Seems they are on the back burner for this expansion. My hope is that Sylvanas comes down from the pipe dream that she can become something of the Lich King's caliber and begins to find a cure for the plague. That way the line between Forsaken and undead isn't just who controls their minds.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •