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  1. #981
    Legendary! Reg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talokami View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but Reg (and you too Reeve and Endus) I have found your replies genuinely heartwarming. It just makes me really glad to see more guys fighting back on the issue.
    To be honest, I think something is wrong when people like us have to even respond to topics like this. It really shouldn't be necessary for us to say "Rape is bad." But I understand where you are coming from.

  2. #982
    Some very rare case of people who rape wouldn't be total worthless jerk. but in the most case it is fair to say, rapist can go shoot themselves.

    But for this minority, we have a law system.

  3. #983
    To those who say that rape is bad, yet still providing justifications for it, I must ask... why? You've admitted that it's wrong. You've said that certain people just aren't right in the head. You're basically saying the same thing that every other person in this thread in this thread has said which is that rapists aren't right in the head and that it's an atrocious act, so why keep trying to supply justifications and excuses for the act?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Unfortunately for you, dictionaries are not authorities on the definitions of words.
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  4. #984
    Scarab Lord Jevlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regennis View Post
    To be honest, I think something is wrong when people like us have to even respond to topics like this. It really shouldn't be necessary for us to say "Rape is bad." But I understand where you are coming from.
    Has anyone said that rape isn't bad or wrong? I'm not being a smartass here, I'm just curious because I haven't seen anyone say that rape is a good thing. However, I've seen people read into certain posts far to deep to elevate themselves as heroes. (Not aimed towards you)
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  5. #985
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    Has anyone said that rape isn't bad or wrong? I'm not being a smartass here, I'm just curious because I haven't seen anyone say that rape is a good thing. However, I've seen people read into certain posts far to deep to elevate themselves as heroes. (Not aimed towards you)
    No not directly. Maybe justifcationss via indirectly but not directly if that is what you are asking.
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  6. #986
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    I believe that you made a mistake in your presentation that led to you saying something that you did not imply. Talking about a "grey area" implies strongly that you are talking about ambiguity, specifically moral ambiguity. A topic where there is more than two or more absolute, defined points with no crossovers between them. In terms of this, in an absolute sense there are two categories: rape is right, and rape is wrong. You were discussing two points where rape is wrong - motivated by a desire for control, and motivated by a lack of control over yourself (although I believe Endus is asserting that these two are intrinsically connected on a basal level, although they are expressed in different ways). So this would be XX. For YY, rape is always right you have, well.. I can't really think about a situation, and don't really want to. When you say there is a gray area, you say that there is XY, a motivation that is sometimes right and sometimes wrong. When you do this by using the term "grey area," you are suggesting that Y is possible and it is possible for rape to be justified.

    English technically isn't my first language, sometimes I misuse terminology I think is right because in my original tongue it has a certain meaning that works but in english it does not. Anyways, truth I simply shouldn't be writing anymore because I'm too tired to pay attention to detail and that detracts from I'm trying to convey with mistakes like Godwin and apparently this.

  7. #987
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    Let's not go there again.
    Your post is sexist. Honestly; it paints two pictures:
    -Men as a group aren't guilty of anything (rape).
    -Women as a group ARE guilty (gold-digging).

    This is pure confirmation bias, and it's really very... How to put it nicely? Skewed by your personal emotions. What you perceive does not reflect what is.
    I agree that men as a group aren't guilty of rape.
    Women as a group aren't guilty of gold-digging, rape, assault, abuse or anything else.

    Individuals do nasty things, but you're judging based on your personal actions versus other's actions, and that never gets good results.
    Men certainly are guilty of rape, but not to the extreme that all woman need to assume a man will rape them (I am a man and i never raped, or even thought of raping anyone). Also, women are guilty of gold digging, but of course not all of them, at least not to the extent that men should assume that all women are gold diggers. My point here is that one should approach everything with an open mind and not assume the worst. I believe the OP made reference to some women being told that they should assume all men are rapists. Which of course is not the case as you pointed out. My point was directed at the people who subscribe to the belief that all men should be viewed as potential rapists. I was pointing out the ridiculousness of that theory. Also, to assume all woman are unable to defend themselves against an attacker is wrong. Its not like "hey, Im going to rape you and there is nothing you can do about." Also, as pointed out in another thread: a man can also rape a man. Yet, I as a man dont view all men as potential rapists.

  8. #988
    Scarab Lord Jevlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    No not directly. Maybe justifcationss via indirectly but not directly if that is what you are asking.
    Alright then. Just asking since most people seem to confuse justification with reasons to why it happens.

    I've seen some posts (and my own) saying *This is why it happens* just to later be accused of condoning such actions simply because one recognizes the reason why such actions happen.
    Last edited by Jevlin; 2013-02-11 at 11:52 PM.
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  9. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    WTF OP, where the hell are you getting this from? I am a female who did my undergrad in Chicago (with the campus in a really really crappy part of the city--look up where U of C's main campus is) and I never worried about any of these things. And I'm 5'8 115 lbs soaking wet.

    I carry mace and took a self defense course when I turned 16 and my dad taught me to shoot at an early age, I can handle myself and most able-bodied women can too.


    You sound bitter. >.<
    Probably the women who cite male privilege and complain about having to be afraid of walking alone at night.

  10. #990
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talokami View Post
    Slightly off-topic, but Reg (and you too Reeve and Endus) I have found your replies genuinely heartwarming. It just makes me really glad to see more guys fighting back on the issue.
    Well, I don't think that anyone is trying to justify rape.

    Just that people are trying to clarify the thought process of a would be rapist and it is being misconstrued as justification of rape.

    I mean, I don't really care either way. By some people's definition of the word rapist, I'm a rapist because I let the pizza boy freeze for a few minutes.
    http://www.heroicstrike.org/ - Goodnight, sweet prince

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  11. #991
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    Alright then. Just asking since most people seem to confuse justification with reasons to why it happens.
    They don't confuse anything, they just like to sound good saying stuff like: "You're a rapist" and "There's no justification for rape" when that's not all what you've been talking about, just so people that don't read past the first few lines, like Talokami, can throw flowers at them.

  12. #992
    Scarab Lord Jevlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arganis View Post
    They don't confuse anything, they just like to sound good saying stuff like: "You're a rapist" and "There's no justification for rape" when that's not all what you've been talking about, just so people that don't read past the first few lines, like Talokami, can throw flowers at them.
    Exactly. I updated my post but I was too slow. xD
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  13. #993
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    Exactly. I updated my post but I was too slow. xD
    Uhhhhhh no I don't think that's it. That's certainly not the truth for me.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  14. #994
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    Alright then. Just asking since most people seem to confuse justification with reasons to why it happens.

    I've seen some posts (and my own) saying *This is why it happens* just to later be accused of condoning such actions simply because one recognize why they happen.
    The issue is that those posters try to blame the circumstances, like "he gets all hot and bothered and then she says 'no'", rather than the rapist, for the rape that occurs. By saying "oh, it's motivated by these kinds of situations", what you're really saying is that you should expect that some men would legitimately (if illegally) act this way, in that situation.

    And what the rest of us are saying is "no". Rape occurs in those situations because that particular man has a lack of concern/care for the woman he's with, and decides that getting off is more important than what she wants. So he rapes her. The justifications and motivations are, at their heart, irrelevant. Those same "justifications and motivations" exist for other guys, too, who somehow DON'T choose to rape the girl.

    Because the issues leading to rape aren't those justifications and motivations, as expressed. They're the individual man, who chooses to rape the girl. Those "justifications and motivations" are not causes, they're excuses. They're what he tells himself so that he doesn't see himself for the monster he is. It's no different than a guy saying "my girl said she was gonna leave me, so I killed her". That doesn't mean breaking up with someone is a motivation or justification for murder. It means that particular guy is a violent psycho.

    That's the difference. It doesn't matter to me what their justifications or motivations may be, because they're not valid. They do not justify rape. As such, they're merely excuses, and to be ignored.

  15. #995
    Banned This name sucks's Avatar
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    I'm a pretty shy guy and I would hate for people to make it harder for me to be friendly because they're running away. It really doesn't do anyone any favours when if you're being paranoid for no reason or having such strong negative preconceptions about 50% of the world's population.

    It makes guys feel awkward and like they've done something horribly offensive. It enforces the stereotype that women are helpless and vulnerable to everything.


    To people who were onboard with this whole "better safe than sorry" mentality about avoiding men (Tiili specifically). Do you feel the same towards other women? Are you just nervous around other people in general or does it have to specifically be a man. What about lesbians? What about feminine guys?

    I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be an asshole.

  16. #996
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    Uhhhhhh no I don't think that's it. That's certainly not the truth for me.
    One only wonders what the truth is for you. How about you actually state your opinion and makes some full fledged posts instead of always tacking on your one liners to what other people have said.
    Last edited by Arganis; 2013-02-12 at 12:06 AM.

  17. #997
    Scarab Lord Jevlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron View Post
    Uhhhhhh no I don't think that's it. That's certainly not the truth for me.
    Just saying we shouldn't get lynched for giving our thought to what the reason for rape is. It's like saying : " I know Hitler gazed Jewish people because he thought they were less worth and evolved than his Aryan race" and get replied with "You racists pig! You think jews are less worth than you!"

    Yes, now we have proper Godwin's in here! xD
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  18. #998
    Pandaren Monk Slummish's Avatar
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    Maybe if 1 in 5 men in the U.S. were going to end up the victims of sexual assault, you might feel differently, OP.

    Maybe the reason women are fearful of men being rapists is because they live in a world where being sexually assaulted is a very real possibility...

  19. #999
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The issue is that those posters try to blame the circumstances, like "he gets all hot and bothered and then she says 'no'", rather than the rapist, for the rape that occurs. By saying "oh, it's motivated by these kinds of situations", what you're really saying is that you should expect that some men would legitimately (if illegally) act this way, in that situation.

    And what the rest of us are saying is "no". Rape occurs in those situations because that particular man has a lack of concern/care for the woman he's with, and decides that getting off is more important than what she wants. So he rapes her. The justifications and motivations are, at their heart, irrelevant. Those same "justifications and motivations" exist for other guys, too, who somehow DON'T choose to rape the girl.

    Because the issues leading to rape aren't those justifications and motivations, as expressed. They're the individual man, who chooses to rape the girl. Those "justifications and motivations" are not causes, they're excuses. They're what he tells himself so that he doesn't see himself for the monster he is. It's no different than a guy saying "my girl said she was gonna leave me, so I killed her". That doesn't mean breaking up with someone is a motivation or justification for murder. It means that particular guy is a violent psycho.

    That's the difference. It doesn't matter to me what their justifications or motivations may be, because they're not valid. They do not justify rape. As such, they're merely excuses, and to be ignored.
    Aaaaaaaaah man I feel like Anakin at the end of Episode III when he's looking up at Obi-Wan from the edge of that lake of lava when I read your posts. You're so full of it. People can discuss the different REASONS for rape taking place without them being an excuse. You're all about "domination" and "misogyny" being the sole motivating factors for rape and yet I don't hear you saying that it "justifies" rape in any way. So why is it when somebody advances something like "hormones" as a possibly different "motivator" for rape you get all high and mighty and act like that's in any way being presented as a valid excuse for rape, on top refuting it's potential validity just because "you said so". Such a hypocrite.
    Last edited by Arganis; 2013-02-12 at 12:14 AM.

  20. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regennis View Post
    To be honest, I think something is wrong when people like us have to even respond to topics like this. It really shouldn't be necessary for us to say "Rape is bad." But I understand where you are coming from.
    Rape is wrong and is utterly a disgusting act beyond belief. I cannot think of doing anything worse to a person. I created this thread from noticing the way a few women i know behave and a bunch of posts i have seen on facebook lately(and here) and was wondering if women(and men) take any steps to avoiding the situation as the things i have seen lately a bit ludicrous ( assuming all men are rapists so must be treated as such at all times) though what many of the people here have shown, like tiili explained all seem reasonable to protect yourself. This thread also wasn't meant to be some pity train to attack women with
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