Page 53 of 65 FirstFirst ...
3
43
51
52
53
54
55
63
... LastLast
  1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by Arganis View Post
    I didn't call on psychology to agree with me in that post. You didn't read anything I said and you're just trying to take their side because you don't like me personally, that's all there is to it.
    I've never talked to you before, actually. Accusing me of disliking you personally because of that is amusing, but fairly off base. I'm "taking their side" because you wrote (and the response written to):

    "You analogy falls completely flat simply because following your train of thought, science can prove there is reason behind rape. It can't and there isn't. Rape is a moral choice. Get over it. There is no constructive discussion.

    That's where you're wrong and you show your ignorance. Ever hear of psychology, psychiatry? Those are sciences and they've proved many things through deduction and analysis. But nothing I say will make you change your mind because you're just like Endus."


    Bolded the important bits.

    The part that science proved was that sex is almost a non-factor in rape.

  2. #1042
    Scarab Lord Xanjori's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sweland
    Posts
    4,637
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    Let me guess... Now you're going to start a shitfeast because I objectified the rape victim(for the sake of simplicity) and therefor in your mind I'm a sexist moron with no regards towards women?
    Welp, thats one way to stereotype. Accuse the other side of doing first!
    [08:44:11] Kurioxan: as long they get big im alright with that

    http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=MMOC-GenOT

  3. #1043
    It's called being street smart. What if you do walk by a mugger or rapist? If you can easily avoid it, why not do it? Have fun getting mugged one day.

  4. #1044
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cho'gall (US)
    Posts
    5,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Solo66 View Post
    Semi-correct on the first one, survey's out on the second.

    The first one: After age 18, it's about 9:1, yes. Up to age 18, it's closer to 4:1. This presumably has to do with the perception of children and women as weak, thus making them better targets for rapists; once a male has reached maturity, the perception is that he is better able to defend himself. (Though of course one would then ask why grown men are more likely to be targets of all other types of violent crime.)

    Anyway, the best I can do with this data is to extrapolate, based on an approximately 3:1 ratio of 18+ to under 18, that over a full lifetime, it's more like 8:1 than 9:1

    For the second one, the data around how likely a woman is to be raped during her lifetime are essentially impossible to untangle for anyone interested in an honest look at the numbers. Depending on where you look, anywhere from 10% (from some government data) to 85% of rapes (from rape victim advocacy groups) are unreported. That is such a huge disparity that there is no good way to determine what's real and what's not. Anyway, the 1 in 6 extrapolates from a lot of shaky data.

    Regardless, the point is the same: yes, a lot of women are raped. I get that that's your point, I just take issue with bad data in all forms.

    My question to you, of course, is why you're so interested in pointing out that women are more likely to be victimized sexually, but you don't care that men are more likely to be beaten, stabbed, shot, murdered, etc. The topic is fear among women, and my point, as should be clear, is that men have more to fear than women do.
    the reason men have a higher violent crime victimization is because they are more likely to be engaging in risky and/or violent activities.

  5. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    Info that comes from .gov sites? The very essence that the graph is trying to convey is that false accusations are an incredibly small percentage. You seem to be thinking it's trying to imply something entirely different than it is.

    Go look up their sources. Seems pretty legit to me. Lots of .gov statistic sites as well as scientific studies conducted on rapes, reported rapes, convicted rapists and false accusations.

    Again Laize, you have this terrible habit of calling something false or bad data if you don't like it and on no other merit to yourself than that.
    You go through great mental acrobatics to convince yourself of this infographic's validity.

    Allow me to list further problems with that graphic. Serious problems... not the least of which is its assumption that all of the accused are guilty.

    Yeah... it's not just about false accusations, but the idea that every accusation is automatically indicative of a crime.

    Not to mention the fact that actual scholars in the area say:

    ". . . the statistics on false rape accusation widely vary and 'as a scientific matter, the frequency of false rape complaints to police or other legal authorities remains unknown.'" A. Gruber, Rape, Feminism, and the War on Crime, 84 Wash. L. Rev. 581, 595-600 (November 2009)
    As such, any data stated as fact on the subject (Especially data that purposely aims for the low end of the estimated range) is intellectually dishonest.

    In addition, even if you assume that the 2% false accusations rate is accurate, that doesn't make the other 98% actual rapes. It just makes them alleged rapes... not even alleged rapes... they were never reported and thus, could never even have been determined to be a legitimate or false claim in the first place.

    Hypothetically speaking, half of those unreported claims could, in fact, be false allegations and we would have absolutely no way of knowing one way or the other... What with them being unreported and uninvestigated and all...

    If you want to get real statistics to make an infographic, get the report rate up. And try not to do it by doing stupid things like forcing the burden of proof on the accused or reducing the requirements for a rape conviction to this disgraceful "preponderance of evidence" horse shit that some universities have been implementing.

  6. #1046
    Scarab Lord Jevlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Where the Monocles live.
    Posts
    4,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Welp, thats one way to stereotype. Accuse the other side of doing first!
    It was just a question. Haven't accused anyone yet. If my guess proves wrong, then I will apologize.
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  7. #1047
    It is sexist for women to avoid men because the fear of rape because the majority of rapes are committed by men just like it is racist saying the majority of violent crimes are committed by minorities there for it is wise to avoid minorities

  8. #1048
    I am Murloc! darenyon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cho'gall (US)
    Posts
    5,782
    Quote Originally Posted by Aspect of Death View Post
    Had no idea you were that defensive (you as in all). From those "safty rules", it sounds like you are scared all the time, especially the part were you cant be in the same room with a stranger for a long period of time.
    The car unlock and be aware of your surroundings, sounds like you go around thinking "someone will attack me now".
    "Dont go out after dark", good that you dont live where the sun is gone for 3months then (like here)!
    theres more, like never leave your drink alone at a party, dont answer the door to strangers (or dont inlatch it if you must), etc.

    these were all taught to me by my mother & grandmother. my grandmother grew up in japan and is the most cautious of us, with good reason.

  9. #1049
    I am Murloc! Tiili's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    5,405
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    Let me guess... Now you're going to start a shitfeast because I objectified the rape victim(for the sake of simplicity) and therefor in your mind I'm a sexist moron with no regards towards women?
    I don't approve the use of objectification in arguments regarding such things.
    Close your eyes and smile.
    [15:53] <PizzaSHARK> you have such a cute accent! ^_^

  10. #1050
    Scarab Lord Xanjori's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sweland
    Posts
    4,637
    Quote Originally Posted by Jevlin View Post
    It was just a question. Haven't accused anyone yet. If my guess proves wrong, then I will apologize.
    The statement was poorly worded really, when discussing sensitive subjects its best to try and be sensitive.
    [08:44:11] Kurioxan: as long they get big im alright with that

    http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=MMOC-GenOT

  11. #1051
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBeardedOne View Post
    So reading these forums lately(lots of posts by a few certain members about this) as well as a post a women shared on facebook got me thinking why are some women so scared of men been potential rapist, i have also seen women cross the road when approaching then cross back down the block to avoid walking past me and other men. I have seen and head numerous things lately about how all women should assume all men are rapist unless they are verified been ok (friend, friend of a friend etc..)
    So women of MMO champ, do you constantly walk around thinking all men are rapist, do you live a constant state of fear. Cause this just seems odd to tarnish all random men you encounter as rapist. If you are scared what lengths do you go to, to protect yourself.

    When i walk down alone at night i am not afraid of muggers or murderers walking the other way, it just seems odd and a little paranoid
    I do not think it is right just to assume every man is a rapist

    I am only paranoid at night when I'm walking alone a dark path... but I am neurotic...
    I trust men and I know that there are MORE normal men who don't behave like wild starving animals.
    While walking anywhere, I don't mind if a man is close... but if he is starting talking to me in a very inappropriate way or "checks" me out like he would be looking at some object, I start to avoid him because I get scared... I consider myself WAY weaker than a guy so I guess that's normal?

    But I think it's the same way of thinking like.. when some men think, a woman wears short skirts and cleavages for THEM. :/

  12. #1052
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    theres more, like never leave your drink alone at a party, dont answer the door to strangers (or dont inlatch it if you must), etc.

    these were all taught to me by my mother & grandmother. my grandmother grew up in japan and is the most cautious of us, with good reason.
    also keys in hand so you don't get attacked searching through a purse for them, never admit to being home alone, get the name + description of anyone coming to work around/ in your house...

    though most of them seem more common sense for ANYONE, not just women.

  13. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by Arganis View Post
    I'm not interested in condoning anything. I'm only interested in exploring possibly different explanation for something, I'm no more a partisan of than murder. Just because you like to think about something and might question it doesn't mean you think highly of it, or whatever other obtuse and righteous nonsense.
    Where did I say you condone anything? You are asking people who fear being a victim, to see it from the assailants view. You do not understand why that's not being taken well?
    Go Hawks!!!!

  14. #1054
    The Insane Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Jaina Proudmoore's side. Always and forever.
    Posts
    18,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethee View Post
    I am only paranoid at night when I'm walking alone a dark path... but I am neurotic...
    I trust men and I know that there are MORE normal men who don't behave like wild starving animals.
    While walking anywhere, I don't mind if a man is close... but if he is starting talking to me in a very inappropriate way or "checks" me out like he would be looking at some object, I start to avoid him because I get scared... I consider myself WAY weaker than a guy so I guess that's normal?

    But I think it's the same way of thinking like.. when some men think, a woman wears short skirts and cleavages for THEM. :/
    I'm of the mind they do it because *It's comfortable*. At least that is what I seem to get.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...htsongg/simple

  15. #1055
    Scarab Lord Jevlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Where the Monocles live.
    Posts
    4,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiili View Post
    I don't approve the use of objectification in arguments regarding such things.
    Well, that' fine. I apologize if it made you feel belittled, that wasn't my intention. I was trying to make my post as short and well constructed as possible, only reason for my poor wording.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    The statement was poorly worded really, when discussing sensitive subjects its best to try and be sensitive.
    Yes, I learnt that now. Won't happen again
    Something, Something, Something, Dark Side.

  16. #1056
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethee View Post
    I am only paranoid at night when I'm walking alone a dark path... but I am neurotic...
    I trust men and I know that there are MORE normal men who don't behave like wild starving animals.
    While walking anywhere, I don't mind if a man is close... but if he is starting talking to me in a very inappropriate way or "checks" me out like he would be looking at some object, I start to avoid him because I get scared... I consider myself WAY weaker than a guy so I guess that's normal?

    But I think it's the same way of thinking like.. when some men think, a woman wears short skirts and cleavages for THEM. :/
    I wish women would understand that it doesn't matter who they wear the short skirts and plunging necklines for.

    You can wear them for the President of the United States for all we care... we're still going to look.

    I mean... you shouldn't need Captain Hindsight to tell you that if you don't want men to look at your ass, you shouldn't wear tight pants.

  17. #1057
    Herald of the Titans Arganis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Ruhenheim
    Posts
    2,578
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    I've never talked to you before, actually. Accusing me of disliking you personally because of that is amusing, but fairly off base. I'm "taking their side" because you wrote (and the response written to):

    "You analogy falls completely flat simply because following your train of thought, science can't prove there is reason behind rape. It can't and there isn't. Rape is a moral choice. Get over it. There is no constructive discussion.

    That's where you're wrong and you show your ignorance. Ever hear of psychology, psychiatry? Those are sciences and they've proved many things through deduction and analysis. But nothing I say will make you change your mind because you're just like Endus."


    Bolded the important bits.

    The part that science proved was that sex is almost a non-factor in rape.
    Yes and his argument was that science can't prove the reasons behind rape and yet you chose to use your post against me, even though his was blatantly wrong as well on more than one level and that's what I was attacking him about. Why is that you think? I'll tell you. It's because you picked me to disagree with first and that right there proves my previous point.

    Anyways I'm over run. You people win ok. I'm a rapist, I condone rape, I think rape is ok because it's hormonal and Satan is my dad and female Diablo my mother. I'm evil and you guys are awesome and everything is well that ends well. Happy now? Whatever, I truly am done here.
    Last edited by Arganis; 2013-02-12 at 01:09 AM.

  18. #1058
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    the reason men have a higher violent crime victimization is because they are more likely to be engaging in risky and/or violent activities.
    Aha! So you admit that one's choice of lifestyle and behavior has an impact on their likelihood to end up as a victim of a violent crime. That sounds suspiciously like victim-blaming. What happens to men if they suggest that a woman's choice of lifestyle and behavior impacts her chance of becoming a rape victim?

    (And yes, I see that you have posted some guidelines for how women can avoid being raped -- which I agree with, by the way. The fact remains that a man making similar suggestions would be pilloried as a victim-blamer.)
    Last edited by Solo66; 2013-02-12 at 01:05 AM.

  19. #1059
    Quote Originally Posted by Laize View Post
    Rabble rabble
    Are we really going to do this dance where someone tries to prove that women lie about rape more than they actually do?

    The 2% of rapes being falsely reported came from FBI.gov of reported rapes, not supposed rapes. It's a fact. It's there. To try to imply that that number is higher than it actually is implies that women are liars, and the men who are acquitted are never liars.

    Many studies are inconclusive because of the low report rate. That does not change the statistics that ARE out there. You're trying to imply the falsely accused rate is higher than it has been proven to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    Unfortunately for you, dictionaries are not authorities on the definitions of words.
    Ezekiel 23:20

  20. #1060
    These types of threads are always tiring. It's always people arguing from either extreme side and it always sounds the same. The chauvanists usually end up sounding like some backwoods hick from a hundred years ago and the feminists are usually just preaching equal rights until its time to pick up the check or get into a life boat. Double standards suck no matter who it is.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •