Why are women so afraid

[Jevlin]

Snip

Every reason for rape(any crime) boils down to the person not caring about the victim. However, that is not the motivation for the rape. Something me and many others have tried to say. If you don't agree that's up to you. Now, the problem I have is that people start screaming rapist just because they don't AGREE with our version for what motivates it. As I said, recognizing the cause doesn't mean we condone it.

[almaderp]

Really, what is this "fucked world views" about men that I supposedly have, as an avowed feminist?

Sorry for going a bit off topic here, but I would say my entire disagreement with feminism stems from the name, I agree that things were not (and still are not) exactly equal but I also think that both sides have their positives. Basically I think a fairly large portion of feminists want to keep their advantages and equalize their disadvantages. Thereby giving themselves a clear advantage. I think if more feminists called themselves equalitarians or something similar and acknowledged that the grass really isn't that much greener on the other side of the fence (if at all, by that I mean I think we have roughly equal advantages and disadvantages though very rarely equal at the same thing) then I would be more inclined to agree with them.

That being said there have been some things I've seen you say that I heartily agree with and some that I shake my head and wonder if you really live in the same world that I do.

[Reg]

They don't confuse anything, they just like to sound good saying stuff like: "You're a rapist" and "There's no justification for rape" when that's not all what you've been talking about, just so people that don't read past the first few lines, like Talokami, can throw flowers at them.

It has nothing to do with trying to sound good. There is no REASON for rape. There is no JUSTIFICATION for rape. You and Sorr have been trying to give reasons that would motivate someone to rape, reasons such as having too much testosterone or being too in the heat of moment to realize the person has said no. These aren't reasons or justifications. They are cop outs for people who will rape no matter what. Trying to delve into the mind of someone who will rape you either way is absolutely pointless. Trying to convince people that they had a reason is disgusting.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Just saying we shouldn't get lynched for giving our thought to what the reason for rape is. It's like saying : " I know Hitler gazed Jewish people because he thought they were less worth and evolved than his Aryan race" and get replied with "You racists pig! You think jews are less worth than you!"

Yes, now we have proper Godwin's in here! xD

I..wouldn't lynch you. Enough people in history has been lynched.

Since the great Arganis wants my opinion I'll give it.


I'm a shy man/boy I like girls,attractive girls. I don't think I'm the hottest guy on the planet but I do think I'm not horrible either but anyways. I DO NOT believe man cannot control themselves during the process of Sex. I just do not believe it for ONE MINUTE. I also don't think Girls should play mind games with us like sending a "I like you but I really don't and just messing with you." Please don't do mind games, it just annoys me and confuses me." Also please don't slowly drift away from a man that also annoys me. If you like to hug me or men please stay consistent and not mess with my head.

Also I hate rape and using it incorrectly just annoys me as well but that is not a girl problem. That is a internet issue. Anyways, I'm sure there are reasons behind rapists, revenge, pure malice, power as so commonly known, and among other things. That is not a justification because there is none. Sure people get drunk and lose reason but again this is why I don't drink it just causes problems.

I do know that rape accusations even false can screw you up. Seems people turn on each other very easily if found out about rape whichh is sad but a crime such as rape is so severe it is the result. It's not right but it's an obvious conclusion. What I think is...and I really stress this FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT JUST CRY RAPE FALSELY You are just hurting actual raped victims with their credability and ruining men's lives. Yes I know men can be raped but I think you can get the idea.


Hitler disapproves this message. I now invoke Godwin's law again.

THank you and Light guide you.

[Arganis]

Just saying we shouldn't get lynched for giving our thought to what the reason for rape is. It's like saying : " I know Hitler gazed Jewish people because he thought they were less worth and evolved than his Aryan race" and get replied with "You racists pig! You think jews are less worth than you!"

Yes, now we have proper Godwin's in here! xD

Somebody that gets it, thank god, was about to lose my last bit of sanity.

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 01:18 AM ----------

I..wouldn't lynch you. Enough people in history has been lynched.

Since the great Arganis wants my opinion I'll give it.


I'm a shy man/boy I like girls,attractive girls. I don't think I'm the hottest guy on the planet but I do think I'm not horrible either but anyways. I DO NOT believe man cannot control themselves during the process of Sex. I just do not believe it for ONE MINUTE. I also don't think Girls should play mind games with us like sending a "I like you but I really don't and just messing with you." Please don't do mind games, it just annoys me and confuses me." Also please don't slowly drift away from a man that also annoys me. If you like to hug me or men please stay consistent and not mess with my head.

Also I hate rape and using it incorrectly just annoys me as well but that is not a girl problem. That is a internet issue. Anyways, I'm sure there are reasons behind rapists, revenge, pure malice, power as so commonly known, and among other things. That is not a justification because there is none. Sure people get drunk and lose reason but again this is why I don't drink it just causes problems.

I do know that rape accusations even false can screw you up. Seems people turn on each other very easily if found out about rape whichh is sad but a crime such as rape is so severe it is the result. It's not right but it's an obvious conclusion. What I think is...and I really stress this FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT JUST CRY RAPE FALSELY You are just hurting actual raped victims with their credability and ruining men's lives. Yes I know men can be raped but I think you can get the idea.


Hitler disapproves this message. I now invoke Godwin's law again.

THank you and Light guide you.

At least now you have my respect.

[Reg]

This thread has turned into a bad OJ Simpson book. Instead of writing about if he did kill his wife, it has turned in to "Well I wouldn't rape, but if I did, this would be why".

[Decklan]

Aaaaaaaaah man I feel like Anakin at the end of Episode III when he's looking up at Obi-Wan from the edge of that lake of lava when I read your posts. You're so full of it. People can discuss the different REASONS for rape taking place without them being an excuse. You're all about "domination" and "misogyny" being the sole motivating factors for rape and yet I don't hear you saying that it "justifies" rape in any way. So why is it when somebody advances something like "hormones" as a possibly different "motivator" for rape you get all high and mighty and act like that's in any way being presented as a valid excuse for rape, on top refuting it's potential validity just because "you said so". Such a hypocrite.

I think you missed the entire point of his post. He's never justified rape and I don't really see where you're getting that. I think he finds issue with other people trying to shift any blame off on the woman... i.e. "Women shouldn't put themselves in the situation where they turn a man on then say no because his hormones might take over!"

I can think of ZERO circumstances where blame can be shifted onto the woman, except in cases where no rape occurred and it's a false accusation... which isn't even a rape in the first place, and are incredibly rare circumstances.

I see two sides of this discussion. Neither side is "justifying" rape. One side is putting the sole responsibility on the man, while the other is trying to argue that blame can in part be shifted onto the woman. Or am I getting that wrong?

[Aspect of Death]

To people who were onboard with this whole "better safe than sorry" mentality about avoiding men (Tiili specifically). Do you feel the same towards other women? Are you just nervous around other people in general or does it have to specifically be a man. What about lesbians? What about feminine guys?

Not long ago there was an article about women shouldnt go out with skirts, and "sexy outfits". Because if they then got raped, then it would be their fault because they were dressing that way. And the man who owns the building im renting with, said that he agreed to that, with adding that its also their fault for being out in the middle of the night, and their fault for walking into the wrong streets. Basically said the women who got raped, brought it on themselfs. (Wich i find COMPLETELY retarded thinking). We discussed more (due to atleast twice a week rapes in the area), and he stands by his opinion.

Anyway! If women were that scared, i dont think they would go alone home from the club etc. Or walk outside after dark. I have personally never experienced women trying to avoid walking past me, atleast not to my knowlege ^^

[darenyon]

I'm a pretty shy guy and I would hate for people to make it harder for me to be friendly because they're running away. It really doesn't do anyone any favours when if you're being paranoid for no reason or having such strong negative preconceptions about 50% of the world's population.

It makes guys feel awkward and like they've done something horribly offensive. It enforces the stereotype that women are helpless and vulnerable to everything.


To people who were onboard with this whole "better safe than sorry" mentality about avoiding men (Tiili specifically). Do you feel the same towards other women? Are you just nervous around other people in general or does it have to specifically be a man. What about lesbians? What about feminine guys?

I'm genuinely curious, not trying to be an asshole.

you dont go out of your way to avoid men, just take precautions.

- have at least one friend when going out to drink
- dont walk alone at night if you can help it
- be home before dark
- be very aware of your surroundings
- have some kind of alarm or defense
- dont unlock your car before you get to it
- try not to be alone in a room for very long with a stranger or acquaintance


all of these are rules women learn for safety, im sure theres more i forgot.

[Tiili]

Yes we can but sometimes for SOME people they CAN become TOO strong to control.

Just how can it become too strong to control?

[Arganis]

It has nothing to do with trying to sound good. There is no REASON for rape. There is no JUSTIFICATION for rape. You and Sorr have been trying to give reasons that would motivate someone to rape, reasons such as having too much testosterone or being too in the heat of moment to realize the person has said no. These aren't reasons or justifications. They are cop outs for people who will rape no matter what. Trying to delve into the mind of someone who will rape you either way is absolutely pointless. Trying to convince people that they had a reason is disgusting.

The problem here is with that kind of reasoning you can't have any kind of constructive discussion. It reminds me of people centuries ago that wouldn't acknowledge the Earth might be round because they though even thinking such things was against god's divine will. That's just stupid. If I'm trying to say that there can be "motivations" for rape other than "domination" and "misogyny" then I'm certainly not saying rape is ok or that it's justified because it might be A: hormones or B: mommy issues. I'm just advancing possible theories that might advance our understanding as a whole and the fact people can refuse that in bulk and act like you're some kind of witch because you even though of might possibly go through the mind of rapist is akin to people refusing to consider the Earth was round just cause they thought there was no point in thinking about it and to think about it all was somehow wrong and meant you were evil.

[Kadil]

Heh no THIS is what i HATE. This stereotype that it;s all power. There can be many reasons a man might go insane. NOT just power. You have NO IDEA how powerful a TRULY suppressed male sex drive CAN be.

It obviously varies and most men never will but there are at LEAST some cases where it comes down to essentially hormonal override of reason. I am NOT saying it is right i AM however saying it is all about power is a lie that makes it easier to try and see things a certain way.

Don't need to be insane to rape someone, poor excuse.

I have no idea about suppressed male sex drives? Excuse me, do you know me from someplace? Or perhaps from my one previous post in this thread you were able to know everything about me....

I'm a man. I work as a commercial diver, sometimes when I work abroad I spend 5-6 months away from home. A typical day for me would be 4 hours in the water, 4 hours in a pressurised chamber, 4 hours back in the water, 4 hours back in the chamber. In the 2 rest breaks I get I still have to find time to eat, wash, sleep etc. Do this for 5 months and then spend 1 month in a decompression chamber, all the while surrounded only by other men and my interests don't flow that way. When I get back home do my urges make me rape my wife if she's not in the mood? No.
But since you know all about repressed sex drives perhaps you're not as experienced as you might think? Maybe you should find yourself a girlfriend or, failing that, a blow-up doll, we wouldn't want you turning into a rapist now would we? Wouldn't want you to be controlled by your superior testosterone.

No means no. Stop means stop. Rape is rape. Those are all black and white. Those who don't stop are only using the victim as a means to an end, they are controlling the victim for their own purposes. There is no little lie to try and see things in a certain way.

[Reg]

The problem here is with that kind of reasoning you can't have any kind of constructive discussion. It reminds me of people centuries ago that wouldn't acknowledge the Earth might be round because they though even thinking such things was against god's divine will. That's just stupid. If I'm trying to say that there can be "motivations" for rape other than "domination" and "misogyny" then I'm certainly not saying rape is ok or that it's justified because it might be A: hormones or B: mommy issues. I'm just advancing possible theories that might advance our understanding as a whole and the fact people can refuse that in bulk and act like you're some kind of witch because you even though of might possibly go through the mind of rapist is akin to people refusing to consider the Earth was round just cause they thought there was no point in thinking about it and to think about it all was somehow wrong and meant you were evil.

You analogy falls completely flat simply because following your train of thought, science can prove there is reason behind rape. It can't and there isn't. Rape is a moral choice. Get over it. There is no constructive discussion.

[Arganis]

I think you missed the entire point of his post. He's never justified rape and I don't really see where you're getting that. I think he finds issue with other people trying to shift any blame off on the woman... i.e. "Women shouldn't put themselves in the situation where they turn a man on then say no because his hormones might take over!"

I can think of ZERO circumstances where blame can be shifted onto the woman, except in cases where no rape occurred and it's a false accusation... which isn't even a rape in the first place, and are incredibly rare circumstances.

I see two sides of this discussion. Neither side is "justifying" rape. One side is putting the sole responsibility on the man, while the other is trying to argue that blame can in part be shifted onto the woman. Or am I getting that wrong?

Ya you're getting it wrong. He's said time and time again that because I didn't buy into his rape is always about "domination" and "misogyny" but might also be about Y and Z that, not only was I a rapist but what I said condoned rape. It's like listening to a religious zealot five hundred years ago. It's ridiculous and because he won't even try to think about the problem, so it makes me think he only says shit like that because he think it sounds good.

[Solo66]

Just going to throw a few statistics out there:

Males are about 8 times as likely as females to commit violent crimes.
Black folks are about 7 times as likely as white folks to commit violent crimes.

So, if you cross the street when you see a man up ahead, but you think it's racist to cross the street when you see a black person up ahead, you got some 'splainin' to do.

Also, men are about 20% more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime. Additionally, blacks are about 20% more likely than whites to be the victims of violent crime.

So, if you're a white female, you're less likely to be victimized than white males, or black people of either gender.

(All data taken from UCR, NCVS and Census.)

[Arganis]

You analogy falls completely flat simply because following your train of thought, science can prove there is reason behind rape. It can't and there isn't. Rape is a moral choice. Get over it. There is no constructive discussion.

That's where you're wrong and you show your ignorance. Ever hear of psychology, psychiatry? Those are sciences and they've proved many things through deduction and analysis. But nothing I say will make you change your mind because you're just like Endus.

[darenyon]

Just going to throw a few statistics out there:

Males are about 9 times as likely as females to commit violent crimes.
Black folks are about 6 times as likely as white folks to commit violent crimes.

So, if you cross the street when you see a man up ahead, you're only slightly less sexist than the person who crosses the street when they see a black person up ahead is racist.

Also, men are about 20% more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime. (And if you were curious, blacks are about 20% more likely than whites to be the victims of violent crime.)

So, if you're a white female, you're less likely to be victimized than white males, or black people of either gender.

and yet 9 out of 10 rape victims are female, and every female in the US has a 1 in 6 chance of being raped in her life.

[Emek]

Really annoys me when women have these ridiculous preconceptions about men.

This this needs to be quoted, society has been doing that to women for years. And though I'm not saying you personally don't realize it, I think people need to realize preconceptions stabs both sides of parties.

Though it's stupid to think all men will rape you, men have preconceived notions that all women are sluts or less capable in the work place.

[Reg]

That's where you're wrong and you show your ignorance. Ever hear of psychology, psychiatry? Those are sciences and they've proved many things through deduction and analysis. But nothing I say will make you change your mind because you're just like Endus.

Psychology and Psychiatry are social sciences which are completely different. The most brilliant psychologists still don't have reasons for the way the mind works, so trying to arbitrarily say there are reasons in a rapists mind that to him are justifiable is ridiculous.

[Vanyali]

That's where you're wrong and you show your ignorance. Ever hear of psychology, psychiatry? Those are sciences and they've proved many things through deduction and analysis. But nothing I say will make you change your mind because you're just like Endus.

"All these views share a common misconception: they all assume that the offender's behavior is primarily motivated by sexual desire and that rape is directed toward gratifying only this sexual need. Quite to the contrary, careful clinical study of offenders reveals that rape is in fact serving primarily nonsexual needs. It is the sexual expression of power and anger. Forcible sexual assault is motivated more by retaliatory and compensatory motives than by sexual ones. Rape is a pseudosexual act, complex and multidetermined, but addressing issues of hostility (anger) and control (power) more than passion (sexuality). To regard rape as an expression of sexual desire is not only an inaccurate notion but also an insidious assumption, for it results in the shifting of the responsibility for the offense in large part from the offender onto the victim: if the assailant is sexually aroused and is directing these impulses toward the victim, then it must be that she has deliberately or inadvertently stimulated or aroused this desire in him through her actions, style of dress, or some such feature"

Page 2

http://www.questia.com/read/10036678...f-the-offender


"Most experts believe the primary cause of rape is an aggressive desire to dominate the victim rather than an attempt to achieve sexual fulfillment. They consider rape an act of violence rather than principally a sexual encounter. Research states that some men do not ejaculate during rape. This proves that whatever is driving this section of men to rape is more than the sexual drive."


http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2010/01/...dliest-sinner/



Rape is usually not about sex at all according to psychology.