Retribution Paladins - Sustained damage or high burst?

[Nairobi]

Yes. You'd put it back in sustained.

The class is GCD locked at times and at other times, its not. If that is an issue, you could always double the duration and half the effect and play around with those values and tweaks instead of looking at the CD. Of course, if ES and LH were reduced in effectiveness, their priority would also likely change, which in turn might mean that they'd become useful gap fillers or powerful situational tools that wouldn't contribute to the burst issue as much.

The point here is to chop off the top of the mountain that Rets can reach when they go into "burst mode", and use the DPS to fill in the sustained DPS valley. The question is where do you trim the burst and how. You could nerf the CDs, but part of Rets feel is that the CDs is has are powerful and actually feel like they have an impact. You can make them available less frequently by extending the CDs. You can get rid of 1 CD entirely - does the class need HA AND AW AND GAnK? Or you can neuter the moves and offensive abilities themselves in some way - LH and ES in particular.

There are, in short, several options available to lower burst and transfer that damage to sustained.

Would you prefer the old standy of not being able to use two CDs at the same time? Give HA, AW and GAnK Forbearance. The problem with that is you end up using CD after CD after CD and then repeating. The suggestion here is to ensure that HA+AW does not result in an uber-burst situation....to remove damage from the burst phase. In this example, that means that you neuter the burst from one CD but do so in a manner that is perhaps more fun than a simple "forbidden".

I'd consider this a poor option. Reducing AWs CD and effect simply starts to makes it part of the sustained DPS cycle. You get a weak CD that is used often to buff sustained DPS. Inquisition on a longer cycle.

I don't think HP makes the skill cap higher. It has the potential to do so, but not the way it is currently implemented. What HP needs is a secondary resource to work off, and greater integration into the skillset of the class.

EJL

But nowhere did you mention any sustained increase.

I don't know about you, but with moderate haste values (Ret is an off-spec for me, so ilvl of only 496) there is hardly ever a time where I'm sitting around waiting in PVE content. Any current "filler time" I might get already has sacred shield claiming it. Reducing the effect of our already vastly underwhelming final tier abilities wouldn't solve the issue, and would just make them less interesting than they already are (since they already don't scale with haste, etc.).

I agree with your mentality of "leveling off the dips" of the roller coaster that is Ret; precisely why I suggested the lowering of CDs, which would do just that. By reducing the height of the peaks, but commensurately increasing their frequency, we see a rise in sustained damage levels without the burden of "balance issues" caused by those high peaks. Total damage stays roughly equal, but you get more options to hit those "fun buttons" and less YouTube all-star videos of stupidly large numbers that set classes back. This way, even if you DO choose to pop them all together, the net cap of %increase is lower than it is currently, overall reducing burst.

I just don't get the logic here: you suggest lowering the CD and effect of abilities like ES or LH, but doing so to AW is a "poor solution"?

[Luminoth4]

Nerf Avenging Wrath or Guardian and Buff Templar's Verdict. It damage is stupidly unpredictable, rather see it be much more consistent and slightly higher. Would like our finisher to mean something, because atm it doesn't really cause that much more damage and can be surpassed by Judgment and Crusader Strike at times. Maybe remove Guardian for sustained, and keep wings. Feel wings is more iconic. Or maybe make Wings not allow HoW.

[Neldarie]

Why nerf anything? Just buff sustained leave burst as is? There is no point nerfing anything when we're already behind so only buff sustain abit to compensate and good game y0?!

Such an easy thing to do and as many pointed out / complained in the past make a big distinction between abilities like make exo quadcrit or something so its default n1 filler and such. Maby give both finishers a small facelift in numbers too.

Btw we getting 2minute wings >baseline< and current tier14 4set getting redesigned.

[Talen]

But nowhere did you mention any sustained increase.

On a thread with a discussion about nerfing burst in favor of sustained? Did I really have to?

Reducing the effect of our already vastly underwhelming final tier abilities wouldn't solve the issue, and would just make them less interesting than they already are (since they already don't scale with haste, etc.).

But they are often used during burst type situations and while they are underwhelming in many ways, they are a contributing factor. Minor, perhaps, but if you want to look at shifting damage from burst to sustained they would be a valid target.

I agree with your mentality of "leveling off the dips" of the roller coaster that is Ret; precisely why I suggested the lowering of CDs, which would do just that. By reducing the height of the peaks, but commensurately increasing their frequency, we see a rise in sustained damage levels without the burden of "balance issues" caused by those high peaks. Total damage stays roughly equal, but you get more options to hit those "fun buttons" and less YouTube all-star videos of stupidly large numbers that set classes back. This way, even if you DO choose to pop them all together, the net cap of %increase is lower than it is currently, overall reducing burst.

Which results in losing the feel of strong CDs that Rets have in favor of the weaker, more frequent CD system that other classes use. You lose the need to time when they can be best used, in favor of simply slipping them into a standard rotation. The weaker and more frequent the CDs are, the more that is the case.

I just don't get the logic here: you suggest lowering the CD and effect of abilities like ES or LH, but doing so to AW is a "poor solution"?

Yes. Because different abilities have different roles, fill different needs, provide the class with a different feel. AW is a CD. ES and LH are not. They are simply moves that have a long enough CD that a burst DPS CD has an appreciable effect on them.

EJL