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  1. #1

    Retribution Paladins - Sustained damage or high burst?

    Hello, i have been playing a Ret paladin since the vanilla days (boring in vanilla, yes, thank you, i know.)

    I was reading this blue post, (Ghostcrawler)? Claiming that many Ret's "cry" when discussing changing our high burst too some more sustained damage.

    I am asking myself: What Ret Pala, in they're right mind is claiming that we shouldnt have some more sustained damage over our high burst?

    We are, and have been for a long time, so predictable to play against in arena, whenever a ret paladin is popping wings, you CC the sh*t outta him, until theyre gone, after that, he really cant do anything.

    I miss the days when i was able to kill a healer as retribution.

    The other day i wanted to do my weekly conquest points, i found a full malevolent resto druid that i think i would give it a go with. What was he's reply? "No thanks, too much pain playing with a ret." - And i couldnt do nothin' but agree with him, it would take me days to get a good healer down, IF i can even kill him. Cause healers dont even go OOM these days, do they?

    Anyways, this post was really too get it out there, that either Blizzard is calling bullsh*t on Ret's atm, or they just dont care. I simply cannot get convinced that the majority of Rets, wouldnt swap out some burst for some more sustained damage. This could be one of MANY things, that could be done to help us out.

    Cheers for reading, leave a reply!

  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    I'd trade my 20 seconds of burst every ~3 minutes for sustained any day.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Nando1991 View Post
    I was reading this blue post, (Ghostcrawler)? Claiming that many Ret's "cry" when discussing changing our high burst too some more sustained damage.

    I am asking myself: What Ret Pala, in they're right mind is claiming that we shouldnt have some more sustained damage over our high burst?


    Anyways, this post was really too get it out there, that either Blizzard is calling bullsh*t on Ret's atm, or they just dont care. I simply cannot get convinced that the majority of Rets, wouldnt swap out some burst for some more sustained damage. This could be one of MANY things, that could be done to help us out.

    Cheers for reading, leave a reply!
    I think it's a case of people saying "Rets complain about losing their burst" and then people take it completely out of context.

    Ghostcrawler said that they have considered giving rets more sustained damage, but at the same time they would have to nerf Avenging Wrath / Guardian to the point to where people would feel it's no longer a "burst cooldown". So it's either have Avenging Wrath/Guardian useful or nerf them to the ground to where our sustained is more competitive.

    To be honest, I wouldn't doubt it if at some point we see something similar in glyph form like the locks have. For instance where the glyph says "When Avenging Wrath is active your damage is increased by 10% (or 15%) when not active your damage is increased by 5% (10%) or roughly lower depending on how much of a dps gain the glyph would be). Something like that would give players a choice of do I want big burst or more sustained. Also, if a glyph like this was implemented it would technically give them data on what ret's prefer rather than which vocal minority of the day can persuade their argument

  4. #4
    But do they really have to nerf our burst damage that much? It should get nerfed, do we get more sustained, but are we really that much worse than for example a warrior when we burst?

  5. #5
    The Patient onlychildish's Avatar
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    I'd prefer to have some sustained damage with a small amount of burst. Kind of like you're able to bottle up your burst, but then you trade away some sustained damage.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alfirin View Post
    I'd trade my 20 seconds of burst every ~3 minutes for sustained any day.

    Hands off my burst, blizz!


    In PvE Avenging Wrath comes back up after 90 seconds. So yeah I can handle aprox 1 min of lower than avarage sustained dps. Never saw a problem.
    Last edited by Peking_Man; 2013-02-11 at 10:31 AM.

  7. #7
    But look at the other end, sPriests are always complaining of having no major 2-3 min burst

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Straamibuu View Post
    But look at the other end, sPriests are always complaining of having no major 2-3 min burst
    Who really thinks that ret burst is not high around here? Would you not be able to score kills if Guardian of the ancient kings was removed from the cooldowns that you can stack together? Burst is a good thing to have, but a spec has nothing else but burst behind long cooldowns, its utterly bad in competitive pvp.

    Holy Avenger should be 1 minute cooldown and 8-10 second duration to give us burst more often but weaker when stacked with every other cd.
    Guardian of the ancient kings should also do something else than be another button to add to your macro every 5 mins.

    Quick estimation about the new Seal of Justice is that when you stack all of your cooldowns together and strike a 5 stack TV in pvp, we might end up doing close to 200k (with mastery included) Templar's Verdicts. As fun as it sounds, it's not a way to fix ret paladins in pvp. Easier solution would have been to increase the damage of rotational abilities and tweak burst cooldowns.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Neldarie's Avatar
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    Leave ret as is buff overall dmg % to be on par. Current model has never been better for PvE ever. Sacrifice this to get that; is a silly nonsensual argument Ghostcrawler loves to oil himself up with every monday morning.
    WoW = Retired Main: Ret Alt(s): War , DK

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  10. #10
    every Class have his burst and his sustain Dmg , nerfing burst and buffing sustain is a good Choise , More competitive in PVP-PVe
    but GC said that 100 or Rets will cry no wich i think its a Lie , and i would like to know where he gets these informations

  11. #11
    Personally take away some of the burst and buff sustained, its not like i dont like the "burst" model but having to align and burn cd's and hit your rotation perfectly to end up at the lower end of the damage done, because of boss design (lei shi for example) which actively penalises "burst dps" in mind is pretty depressing

    Buffing burst, has and always will have, cause an issue with PvP, which generally has caused re-tuning of our dps in PvE too

  12. #12
    Any chance shadow priest PvE damage and off-healing concerns will be addressed before 5.2 goes live? Part 1 of the thread is full of them. Part 2 just became PTR world of paladincraft. Maybe make a separate paladin thread before having to close this one too?
    RE: Shadow. We haven't buffed damage yet. Mind Blast is a likely candidate because it helps damage on the move and doesn't change rotation priorities. Mind Sear perhaps too. All of that is off the top of my head, so don't hold me to it.

    RE: Paladins. Welcome to my world. <----------- AHOYYYYY , whats the meaning of this ???

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Just buff Censure damage and give us Consecration back np

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Peking_Man View Post
    In PvE Avenging Wrath comes back up after 90 seconds. So yeah I can handle aprox 1 min of lower than avarage sustained dps. Never saw a problem.
    Erm, enjoy t15???

  15. #15
    Sustained all the time, burst with cooldowns.

  16. #16
    Like iv said before, in cata they nerfed HoW crit % and buffed sword of light from 10% to 20%, then in mop they lowered sword of light and never gave our HoW crit% back, just give the sword of light 10% back, which i know would be a pretty significant buff if they didnt nerf cds(but technically they already did this last exp with HoW nerf)

    But more on topic, ya, when i read that hundreds of rets would cry, i couldnt help but think of the fact that theres, what, like 250,000 ret paladins, its funny he literally says "hundreds" which we all know in the grand scheme of things, hundreds equates to like 0.001% of the ret player base

  17. #17
    Biggest issue is that someone, somewhere will always cry. You can't please all the people all of the time...sadly in MMOs as large as this, you can rarely please SOME people SOME of the time.

    Just do what's right for the game; if you're afraid to make changes because you'll lose a popularity contest, you're in the wrong line of work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  18. #18
    i would like to have some more sustained instead of burst but really what i miss is divine purpose i know im a wirdo but i miss the procs i like rng things don't jugde me. ;D

  19. #19
    More of sustained for me as well.

  20. #20
    High Overlord Trisrx's Avatar
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    Only a couple months ago ret was "right where we want it". But eventually it got through to blizz that ret needed some attention. If we keep screaming more sustained, less burst repeatedly, non stop for the next several months, then by the time the 5.4 PTR rolls around blizzard should finally get the message.

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