1. #1

    It's about time Elemental is completely revamped or replaced with a proper spec

    TLDR Elemental sucks, what would you improve for PvE and PvP?

    Unless there's a total revamp, it's quite clear that Elemental is an overall boring spec. We have mediocre utility in raids (Stormlash Totem and Healing Tide Totem? Yeah whatever). PvP is a frustrating and rewardless experience if people have the brains to sit on your face and make you their bitch, I don't see why the spec still exists.

    Everyone just rolls a resto shaman unless they want to play a flawed spec that never gets the opportunity to do something unless you play with gladiator partners. I'm an 1800 shaman in 3v3, so obviously my input means little to you all, but I'd like a casting spec that actually has some thought put into it than just Spam LB, LvB procs and some shocks here and there. Maybe a hex or two (pvp). The spec is just so flawed, no matter how hard I try to improve, I'm just death fodder (maybe it's our niche?). Shamanistic Rage won't solve our survival issues lol we'll just last 15 seconds longer.

    My biased QQ aside, what are some improvements to make it an entertaining and top-notch dps in Raids, and a highly viable gladiator class that doesn't need babysitting?

    Inb4 hateful comments
    Last edited by crazed; 2013-02-23 at 10:56 AM.

  2. #2
    I have a lot of fun with Elemental in PvE. Our dps could be higher, moreso than the my dps sucks qq from other classes.

    Lobotomizing a spec because you can't have fun with it in pvp is not a good solution.

  3. #3
    pvp as ele really blows, for us to put pressure on someone while we are getting tunneled till we die is to spread your flame shock everywhere possible and then using your lava burst procs as a means of burst dmg via ele blast instant lava burst with a fulmination otherwise you cant do anything lb hits so little its not even worth casting. With that combination of dmg if it all crits and overloads you can bring down someone from 100% hp to about 30% hp in 3 globals but that never tends to happen and when it even does happen its dmg per cast is about 2-3 higher then when your in Ascendance because they ever los/interrupt/silence/stun you till its off.
    Last edited by Velthari; 2013-02-23 at 11:19 AM.

  4. #4
    I am sorry you dont enjoy elemental, and while I respect your opinions you should also respect that there are many other people out there that dont agree with you, many people out there that really enjoy elemental (even in pvp) so surly if elemental is something that you feel is poor/bad/doesnt work then maybe you should find a class/spec that suits you rather than try change something for many others who enjoy it?
    Keeping everyone happy is impossible.

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  5. #5
    QQ is not constructive.

    Ele is seeing major changes in pvp. Shamanistic Rage w/ glyph is amazing.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazed View Post
    Inb4 hateful comments
    So much irony.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    Ele is seeing major changes in pvp.
    A single Def CD is not a major change.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


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  8. #8
    The Patient Lensir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    QQ is not constructive.
    Ele is seeing major changes in pvp. Shamanistic Rage w/ glyph is amazing.
    Oh, yeah. That change was so fucking deep and unique.

    What I would like to see is a reworking of the LvB spell.

  9. #9
    ele needs more cast protection through more instant spells and better kiting

    it always needed this since blizz put so much more emphasis on elemental damage coming from both flame shock and earth shock
    that's why at least frost shock needs to be unlinked form the shared shock cooldown

    even then, ele wont be up to par with the stronger caster specs, but it would be a huge improvement

    with better kiting comes more successful casts and less taken damage
    with less taken damage comes more survivability
    with more successful casts comes more unhindered selfheal and damage
    with more selfheal comes more survivability
    with more damage enemies will play more defensively, reducing their damage, raising survivability, plus more damage means better burst and through that, better chances at getting a kill
    with better kiting, enemies will have to expend more into countering that kiting, spending less time on draining you, increasing survivability

    I dont think elemental needs to be replaced with a new spec (or enh for that matter). I dont think the basic shaman toolkit is crap per se.
    I think you could make both enh/ele awesome with the spells they already have, if blizz just started removing some dumb restrictions still in place, and buffing our stuff in a sensible way.

    Take SBT for example: It getting some of our hp was a start (though I doubt 10% of our health will do much about the problem at hand). I still think that most totems are still to easy to counter. They dont offer enough to require that ease to counter them (which blizzard doesn't seem to notice even, labeling them as to easy to counter, bringing that ridiculous silence nerf).

    -gw used to be awesome in wotlk, but now it's crap
    -frost shock used to provide good kiting for elemental in tbc (vanilla was dominated by enh, but enh made good use of it) and lost that kiting through having to use fs and frs
    -enh used to have good self heal, but now it's gone with that indiscriminate nerf (which didn't hit rogues or warriors'selfheal, from how I understood the way pvp power worked)
    -enh and ele used to have a niche against caster with wind shear, but while a 12sec cd compared to other's 15sec is nice, it comes not close to 5sec vs. 10sec we had before

    and obviously there are my all-time-favourites in deliberately inferior design: Hex (with almost all the combined weaknesses of other CCs), Capacitor (I dont need to explain this one, do I?), Stonebulwark (a mediocre absorb which refreshes, but doesn't stack, which needs long uptime for full effect, blocking other earth totems meanwhile and even with the new 10% shaman hp, it can be destroyed fast) and others

    another thing: they reduced spiritwalk's cooldown form 2min to 1min now. why dont they reduce it to 15 seconds and reduce the duration to 3-5 seconds? It would likely take care of enhance's mobility problem alltogether
    that's what I am talking about: simple, easy and quickly implemented changes with a huge impact but not overpowered because they simply bring us in line by giving us comparative material to what others have

    blizz could implement these changes within one day probably, but they simply dont. that's why I've given up on enh and wow.

    edit: another thing is unleash elements/fury and their respective imbues. If blizz could just make an alternating use of these effects less punishing to pull of, shamans would become MUCH more flexible (it would aslo effect resto, yes, since they could more easily utility UF/R: FB and UF:RB, so it would require some nerf elsewhere if resto came out to strong, but that shouldn't be impossible w/o nerfing ele/enh along the line)
    which brings us to unjustified nerfs to enh/ele to weaken resto.

    there's no point in creating new specs, if blizzard's pvp balance on shamans revolves around a single spec.
    Last edited by Omanley; 2013-02-23 at 12:24 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    A single Def CD is not a major change.
    I really don't think ele shamans are grasping the Shamanistic Rage glyph. This thing is practically a 2nd trinket, on top of being a 2nd defensive cool down, can use it while stunned. Makes Offensive spells cost no mana, and it lasts 15 seconds, on a 1 min CD?

    That CL change is going to be killer in RBGs and the new lava beam to melt faces at people around nodes, LVB always critting, Totemic Restoration fixed, SBT improved, Elemental Mastery being 1.5 min cd. But hey, no major changes

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aviators View Post
    i really don't think ele shamans are grasping the shamanistic rage glyph. This thing is practically a 2nd trinket, on top of being a 2nd defensive cool down, can use it while stunned. Makes offensive spells cost no mana, and it lasts 15 seconds, on a 1 min cd?

    That cl change is going to be killer in rbgs and the new lava beam to melt faces at people around nodes, lvb always critting, totemic restoration fixed, sbt improved, elemental mastery being 1.5 min cd. But hey, no major changes
    How DARE you bring a box of kleenex to a sobbing party?!
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Omanley View Post
    TL: DR
    Just a question, if you don't play the game, why do you continue to post here as if you do play the game?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    I really don't think ele shamans are grasping the Shamanistic Rage glyph. This thing is practically a 2nd trinket, on top of being a 2nd defensive cool down, can use it while stunned. Makes Offensive spells cost no mana, and it lasts 15 seconds, on a 1 min CD?
    It's still no major change to this spec, secondly it's great that while Purge glyph get's nerfed to the ground, i have a new close to mandatory glyph for PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    LVB always critting,
    It's an 66% Improvement compared to a non critical Lvb but a 50% downgrade from FS being not present, Lvb will it harder but not hard enough to put some pressure on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    Totemic Restoration fixed,
    Explain me that fix, for me it's rather a nerf to Tremor because instantly destroying tremor after breaking fear yields not a 30sec reduction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    SBT improved,
    SBT has still the major flaw that the shield itself is dispelable and requires 30sec to take it's full effect, Earth totems are pretty important in PvP, locking earth out for 30sec will not work always.

    And if you just take it for the initial shield, the 1Min CD is far too long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    Elemental Mastery being 1.5 min cd.
    Most people took AS for the Instant Hex, not sure if EM becomes more attractive since it's still dispelable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    But hey, no major changes
    You should exclude those "buffs" to those talents from your view actually, these are rather buffs to those talents itself because no one took it, these buffs are supposed that this talent can catch up with the "top dog" talent of this tier.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    That CL change is going to be killer in RBGs and the new lava beam to melt faces at people around nodes
    Yeah because being able to cast is something an Elemental can always do in RBG and if Lava Beam proves to be that strong, most people will just do the same as they do with a Balance druid that uses CD's: Focus them until those CD's run out.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    It's still no major change to this spec
    Ele shamans never had this, how is this not a major change to this spec?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    It's an 66% Improvement compared to a non critical Lvb but a 50% downgrade from FS being not present, Lvb will it harder but not hard enough to put some pressure on it.
    But you forget that Mastery LvB will now always crit too, which adds pressure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Explain me that fix, for me it's rather a nerf to Tremor because instantly destroying tremor after breaking fear yields not a 30sec reduction.
    Its a fix because the client would sometimes not recognise instantly destroyed totems, and their CDs would not even be reduced.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    SBT has still the major flaw that the shield itself is dispelable and requires 30sec to take it's full effect, Earth totems are pretty important in PvP, locking earth out for 30sec will not work always.

    And if you just take it for the initial shield, the 1Min CD is far too long.
    Well, that shield got buffed by 25%.


    Add more when I get home

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    Just a question, if you don't play the game, why do you continue to post here as if you do play the game?
    Because I played the game for a long time, because I cared about our state back then and still do? Because I keep track of the changes they implemented since then and know they wont get us where we need to be? Because I would gladly return to a wow that would give us shamans the attention that is our due?

    If that doesn't satisfy your curiousity: Because I can?

    Can I also ask you a question? Why ask? Is there anything faulty in my post?
    Quote Originally Posted by Angoth
    I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

  16. #16
    i love ele shaman, idc if we are low i still rank and compete in my guild so its ok, we are getting buffed some anyways.
    do what you feel.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    Ele shamans never had this, how is this not a major change to this spec?
    Because enemies won't actually react on Shamanistic Rage, they will just continue to train you.

    It certainly helps not to die so fast, but you will still be the focus target.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    But you forget that Mastery LvB will now always crit too, which adds pressure.
    The only thing that got changed in PvP that a FS that get dispelled while you Lvb isn't such a huge loss anymore, FS not being present will still kill your damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    Its a fix because the client would sometimes not recognise instantly destroyed totems, and their CDs would not even be reduced.
    Okay but i'm not sure if you can consider a Bug fix as actual buff

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    Well, that shield got buffed by 25%.
    Aside from the fact that i mentioned the Initial Absorb shield isn't worth a 1Min CD, i did not talk about the amount of absorb it provides but rather it's actual mechanic.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  18. #18
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    There's plenty of other threads where constructive discussion is going on. I'm closing this one, since starting with that biased a first post isn't going to lead it anywhere productive.

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