1. #1
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Glyph of Totemic Recall & HST

    So, I made a post in the "5.2 Shaman Changes" thread, but it didn't get any traction. But, my question for you Resto Shaman raiders is about [Glyph of Totemic Recall], and its use as a mana regen tool. So, I use the glyph on every fight as a mana tool, and I recall HST with about a 90% accuracy and FE totem whenever I drop it.

    My concern is that it's too much a part of my play style and too much of a crutch. It reminds me a lot of the Dragon Soul, Telluric Currents regen style... it's clunky, but it sure as Hell gave me some sexy mana regen. I feel forced into using it, and recalling my HST at 0.5 seconds.

    Does anyone else feel too dependent on this glyph for regen, and kinda think it should be realistically looked at going into 5.2? On most 5.0 fights, it's responsible for about 1/3 to 1/2 of the regen of Resurgence; it's essentially a MAJOR component to my healing toolbox. Not that we Shaman have too many Major Glyphs to choose from, I just would love some acknowledgement from GC/Blizz regarding it, because I know I'm not the only Resto shaman out there using it in this manner.

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  2. #2
    Glyph of Totemic Recall is in my opinion the best glyph for shamans as it is right now. And I'm not aware of any changes as far as glyphs go, so I don't see why you'd start questioning it going into 5.2.

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmastarn View Post
    Glyph of Totemic Recall is in my opinion the best glyph for shamans as it is right now. And I'm not aware of any changes as far as glyphs go, so I don't see why you'd start questioning it going into 5.2.
    I'm glad we're at least on board with each other. But, the fact that it is indeed the best glyph choice for Shaman (imo as well) and that it plays a crucial part in my "rotation," and that despite its benefits, I think it's a very clunky, poor mechanic - one that I think should be looked at [going into 5.2, since obviously that's when chance will happen].

    Quite frankly, I feel like you answered the question as to why I'm "questioning it going into 5.2" by very nicely bullet-pointing my argument.

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Irisel View Post
    I'm glad we're at least on board with each other. But, the fact that it is indeed the best glyph choice for Shaman (imo as well) and that it plays a crucial part in my "rotation," and that despite its benefits, I think it's a very clunky, poor mechanic - one that I think should be looked at [going into 5.2, since obviously that's when chance will happen].

    Quite frankly, I feel like you answered the question as to why I'm "questioning it going into 5.2" by very nicely bullet-pointing my argument.
    Yes I completely agree. But tbh knowing blizzard and how little patch notes im actually seeing for shamans, if they took it away or something, I seriously doubt it would be on the top of their priorities to change something to compensate

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delaxes View Post
    Yes I completely agree. But tbh knowing blizzard and how little patch notes im actually seeing for shamans, if they took it away or something, I seriously doubt it would be on the top of their priorities to change something to compensate
    One they can do, is roll the glyph into the Talent "Totemic Restoration." I agree with you, that it doesn't seem like a priority to Blizzard right now, despite how crucial I feel it is to my Shaman. It won't fix the playstyle, but if they're not going to do that, at least free up a glyph spot for me and make a "meh" talent a little more appealing?

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  6. #6
    I don't think this needs to be looked at. First I'm pretty sure the vast majority of players aren't using the glyph (either because they haven't thought about it or because they need the slots for something else) and second it's totally possible to play competitively without it.
    In fact it brings an advantage only if you change your gameplay which was the goal with the new glyph system in the first place.
    I think it's genius.

  7. #7
    I think it's hugely flawed and should be looked at if not removed altogether. Any fight during progression that stresses the healers mana (all of them) makes this glyph a no brainer, making the use of it essential. My main beef with it is that recalling totems is not a fun mechanic, it's been made clear water shield/resurgence/spirit are our intended means of regaining mana; the mana gains from this glyph are too large to pass up forcing recalling totems to be part of optimizing a resto shaman, I personally don't enjoy it. If they want us to be able to use Fire Elemental and other non-healing utility totems they should reduce the mana costs of them when spec'd resto.

  8. #8
    At this time with my current gear I dont really use that glyph or telluric currents. Mainly, at this time I am not having the mana problems that this glyph would cure. This is a 25 man raid though so we can call out other mana giving cooldowns such as hymns from priest and tide from the other shaman.

    At this time I run the
    Glyph of Healing Wave ( I still Hw due to tank healing a lot and hw is just a free cast for me)
    Glyph of Healing Stream ( this one i switch out depending on boss)
    Glyph of Riptide ( My riptide heals are pretty high and so is my tidal wave buff)

  9. #9
    At this time I run the
    Glyph of Healing Wave ( I still Hw due to tank healing a lot and hw is just a free cast for me)
    Glyph of Healing Stream ( this one i switch out depending on boss)
    Glyph of Riptide ( My riptide heals are pretty high and so is my tidal wave buff)
    What I'm able to read from this is a guy who gives up 14,1k mana every 30 second (even more if you count fire/earth elemental) plus an instant 20k heal on riptide to gain close to nothing. I don't see how HoTing everyone with riptide would be viable and the increased uptime you get on tidal waves from the riptide glyph is minimal. But hey, that's just me!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmastarn View Post
    What I'm able to read from this is a guy who gives up 14,1k mana every 30 second (even more if you count fire/earth elemental) plus an instant 20k heal on riptide to gain close to nothing. I don't see how HoTing everyone with riptide would be viable and the increased uptime you get on tidal waves from the riptide glyph is minimal. But hey, that's just me!
    Not everyone needs the extra mana provided by TR glyph. For you it might seem necessary, but this is not the case for everyone. As far as the riptide glyph goes, it's a play style choice just like TR glyph.

    To the OP: I'm sure there are plenty of rsham that depend on this glyph for mana regen. From what I've gathered though from rshams that I know that use it, it's a trade off. It allows them to convert spirit into other stats thanks to the extra mana they get from the glyph. But it's a play style choice, which as someone said earlier, is the purpose of the new glyph system.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 03:22 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Irisel View Post
    One they can do, is roll the glyph into the Talent "Totemic Restoration." I agree with you, that it doesn't seem like a priority to Blizzard right now, despite how crucial I feel it is to my Shaman. It won't fix the playstyle, but if they're not going to do that, at least free up a glyph spot for me and make a "meh" talent a little more appealing?
    That would make the talent way to powerful for resto, making it the talent that every rsham takes, since even if they don't use the glyph now, it would mean they could get it from a talent tier that is unimpressive as it stands. Because of this, I doubt we will see that happen.

  11. #11
    Not everyone needs the extra mana provided by TR glyph. For you it might seem necessary, but this is not the case for everyone. As far as the riptide glyph goes, it's a play style choice just like TR glyph.
    I'd accept that argument for a player with as low spirit as possible. I prefer by far dumping spirit into crit/mastery and taking the glyph than taking any other glyph and "losing" 3k+ secondary stat in spirit in order to have a similar regen. When I play resto I have around 8-9k spirit (+dmc,other trinket currently is fruit barrel), and I felt it was more than enough for all the fight I had to heal (playing elemental main spec, but healed all 10man hard mode hof without any mana trouble, and I'm on par with our "main spec shaman healer")
    Last edited by Bethan; 2013-02-13 at 02:00 AM.

  12. #12
    Ive never used this glyph, as Resto shamans have hardly any mana issues at all.
    Im not sure how geared OP is, but in my gear http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...liuum/advanced I wouldnt even consider this. Mana just isnt an issue at all. have the ranks to back it up too. IF you have time to use a GCD to recall it, then you obviously have time to not heal, where you could just lightning bolt anyways.
    our first Heroic Empress kill, I had over 50% mana left at the end :/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7x7-m4Ow0IA
    maybe Im just playing bad, but I really dont think this glyph is by any means essential. imo a waste of time :P
    Last edited by ValiumMm; 2013-02-13 at 03:15 AM.

  13. #13
    I feel this is a good thread to ask,

    How do you track the remaining time left on your HST to efficiently make use of the totemic recall glyph?
    I find myself missing the window to use totemic recall often as my eyes shift away from the remaining time on my totems during the action
    Do I just need to 'get good' and stop tunneling or does anyone have a weak aura or any other UI recommendations to help?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobum View Post
    I feel this is a good thread to ask,

    How do you track the remaining time left on your HST to efficiently make use of the totemic recall glyph?
    I find myself missing the window to use totemic recall often as my eyes shift away from the remaining time on my totems during the action
    Do I just need to 'get good' and stop tunneling or does anyone have a weak aura or any other UI recommendations to help?
    well...i track it with weakauras... got the HST icon with a timer in it and on 3 sec left on totem i get a sound so i know i can cast the spell im on and have to recall after...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmastarn View Post
    What I'm able to read from this is a guy who gives up 14,1k mana every 30 second (even more if you count fire/earth elemental) plus an instant 20k heal on riptide to gain close to nothing. I don't see how HoTing everyone with riptide would be viable and the increased uptime you get on tidal waves from the riptide glyph is minimal. But hey, that's just me!
    4 piece= faster cast= downtime on tidal waves= slower spells or 5% less crit on surge.

    Using a glyph to gain 14,100 mana im guessing is a waste for me being I dont need that mana since i have plenty of regen.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobum View Post
    I feel this is a good thread to ask,

    How do you track the remaining time left on your HST to efficiently make use of the totemic recall glyph?
    I find myself missing the window to use totemic recall often as my eyes shift away from the remaining time on my totems during the action
    Do I just need to 'get good' and stop tunneling or does anyone have a weak aura or any other UI recommendations to help?
    TellMeWhen. Best and most useful addon I think I've ever installed. Perfect for tracking, well, everything. I have it tracking mana tide, HST, Spirit Link, Riptide on target, Riptide/CH/HR Cool downs. (Handy for having when StormLash Totem is active so you can see when others have dropped it easily and you don't waste yours). I also have Water Shield and Earthliving as two massive icons that basically cover the screen so I don't let them drop off.

  17. #17
    you could just lightning bolt anyways.
    A lb spell is a 1.5+ sec cast for a 1k8 mana gain.
    A totemic recall is a 1.2+sec GCD for a 14k mana gain. You'd have to cast 8 lb (12sec of casting) to earn as much mana as in a single recall gcd. Using lb is easier, but for telluric current glyph to be better than recall totem glyph you'd have to cast so much lb in the fight you'd be better playing elemental...

    edit : checking my 10hc Emperess kills were I can spend a lot of time casting lb in p2, and where I usually totally mess up with my totemic recall because most of the time I don't want to spare the gcd, first kill I got 98k mana back from totemic recall (in 7cast) against 90k mana for telluric current (50casts, 300k mana earned - 210k spent casting lb). Second kill was 115k mana gain from totemic recall (7 cast too, this time I also recalled fire elemental with a hst) against 45k mana for telluric current (only 25cast, we must have fucked up something in p2, can't remember). Even on this boss where telluric current is "really powerfull", it's still a lot lower than totemic recall. (nb :The other resto cham got 170k mana back from totemic recall on the first try)
    Last edited by Bethan; 2013-02-14 at 01:42 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    That would make the talent way to powerful for resto, making it the talent that every rsham takes, since even if they don't use the glyph now, it would mean they could get it from a talent tier that is unimpressive as it stands. Because of this, I doubt we will see that happen.
    I wonder if this would be true.
    Currently I'd think that CotE would be used by most resto for the extra HST and SBT usage.

    Wonder if rolling TR glyph in to TR talent would really make it that much better than CotE.
    If it's comparable it could be an interesting choice for resto to choose between a little extra throughput or a little extra regen.

    But that would remove the option for getting both from people who currently use the TR glyph and CotE talent.

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