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  1. #1
    Mechagnome a C e's Avatar
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    5.2 - will Demo and Destro be competitive in PVE?

    Did anyone try the PTR and know if Demo and Destro are going to be competitive in dps with the affliction spec next patch?

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    I don't think it's so much that Destro and Demo are doing too little, so much as it is that Affliction is far too high.

  3. #3
    The balancing still isn't done afaik, so no such data will be available yet (reliably so).

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Palmz's Avatar
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    Demo? Yes. Destro with a lot of meter padding to look good but not really contributing to damage that matters!? No. There are a couple bosses that demo will be good for i e. Primordius, Ji'kun possibly if you are on add duty and Horrodin but again this will probably be a tier where affliction is best overall. For normals and LFR that is so far. Heroic testing isn't out yet and that will yet to be determined later when 5.2 is actually live.
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  5. #5
    Damage that matters? Can you please explain what damage doesn't matter?
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLisi1982 View Post
    Damage that matters? Can you please explain what damage doesn't matter?
    Affliction deals rapid damage in small doses, so there is very little damage on the meters that does not contribute directly towards your victory unless you are intentionally trying to scum the logs on a fight like Protectors. Destro deals damage in large chunks that can result in huge overkill, and that number can add up over the course of a fight. We'll use a rather extreme example here, but you should get the gist from it:

    Situation: A boss with ten adds that all have a tiny amount of HP.

    The affliction warlock is going to do damage that is roughly equal to the HP of all the mobs combined (with a little overkill). The destro warlock could pop 800k+ Shadowburns on those ten adds even if they had only 1 hp left. Careful scrutiny of logs will reveal the truth, but casual scrutiny will credit the destro warlock with all that overkill.

    The really scary thing? Affliction tops the meters even with such tiny overkill.
    Last edited by Iry; 2013-02-11 at 02:18 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLisi1982 View Post
    Damage that matters? Can you please explain what damage doesn't matter?
    Overkilling adds with Shadowburns for 1 mill (+1 mill on boss, granted) gives you 2 mill damage done, where only 1 mill of it mattered, because the other 1 mill was all overkill.
    Dotting other bosses than the maintarget on Protectors of the Endless (they heal to full when one of them dies, so any damage done to boss#2 or boss#3 before boss#1 died is void).
    That kind of damage doesn't matter.

  8. #8
    Avoiding the discussion of why each spec is cheesy in their own way....I see affliction getting nerfed enough to make demo competitive with it. Preferably they only balance them a little more then they already are in terms of what they're best at. (Affliction Single target/multi-dot, Demo Multi-dot/AoE, and Destro Cleave/AoE.)

    To answer your question more direct OP, if the gear that has been released on the PTR stays the same (it looks like finalized gear) we will have a TON of crit; so if they nerf affliction (which a lot of people expect since GC himself said he thinks it's too strong) then Demo will edge its way up regardless if they buff it or not.
    Last edited by Kink; 2013-02-11 at 02:41 PM.

  9. #9
    Yes - it will be competitive in PvE, like it is nowadays - it depends only on your skills.



    NO you wont be able to beat skilled players playing some other spec - like affli, mages etc. - like it is nowadays.


    Nothing will change.

  10. #10
    We won't know anything till the balance pass is made. They could balance things by nerfing Affliction 10% or buffing Destro by 10%, either of those would completely throw out of whack anything we are discussing now. Have patience, GC said they were in the middle of the balance pass internally, so we should see the results of it Soon™
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    I don't think it's so much that Destro and Demo are doing too little, so much as it is that Affliction is far too high.
    The fact that everyone who wants to be "competitive" plays Affliction because it sims higher (vs. people who play Demo/Destro b/c it's "fun") only serves to skew the difference between specs even further.

    One thing is for sure, some class/spec will be at the top and another at the bottom. Certainly there needs to be some class/spec balancing, but I hope they don't smash Affliction into the ground in the process. I'd like to think it's OK for a Warlock spec to perform at the top for a while...just like it was OK for Shadow Priests to occupy the top spot forever during in Cat.

  12. #12
    at what point during all of cataclysm did spriests dominate? or did i miss an expansion

  13. #13
    Strangely enough, Destruction is nerfed 2x as much as affliction with the grimoire of sacrifice nerf.
    Affliction will get 10% less value from GoS, destruction 20% less value than in 5.0x.

    This is really incredible as destruction already lags affliction.

    Regarding meter padding it is a true science and affliction can pad meters even more than destruction by dotting mobs that are of no consequence to the fight. such as terror spawsns in P1 hero. Demonology warlocks, with outrageous DPET doom are quite adept too at padding meters.

  14. #14
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmarieni View Post
    Strangely enough, Destruction is nerfed 2x as much as affliction with the grimoire of sacrifice nerf.
    Affliction will get 10% less value from GoS, destruction 20% less value than in 5.0x.

    This is really incredible as destruction already lags affliction.

    Regarding meter padding it is a true science and affliction can pad meters even more than destruction by dotting mobs that are of no consequence to the fight. such as terror spawsns in P1 hero. Demonology warlocks, with outrageous DPET doom are quite adept too at padding meters.
    I do not think it is mathematically correct to take the percent on a percent. Both had Sac nerfed by 5%.
    A living Warlock = a dead everyone else

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    I do not think it is mathematically correct to take the percent on a percent. Both had Sac nerfed by 5%.
    5/50 = 10%
    5/25 = 20%

  16. #16
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    5/50 = 10%
    5/25 = 20%
    I do not think it is mathematically correct to take the percent on a percent. Both had Sac nerfed by 5%.

    Edit: Instead of being passive aggressive, I will answer more clearly.

    Take a destro spell that hits for 100k. Under sacrifice in 5.1 that spell hits for 125k. In 5.2 that spell will hit for 120k. 5K less damage/125k original damge = 4% less damage

    For affliction, that 100k spell will hit for 150k and 145k respecively = 3.33% less damage
    Last edited by Scathbais; 2013-02-11 at 07:51 PM.
    A living Warlock = a dead everyone else

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    I do not think it is mathematically correct to take the percent on a percent. Both had Sac nerfed by 5%.

    Edit: Instead of being passive aggressive, I will answer more clearly.

    Take a destro spell that hits for 100k. Under sacrifice in 5.1 that spell hits for 125k. In 5.2 that spell will hit for 120k. 5K less damage/125k original damge = 4% less damage

    For affliction, that 100k spell will hit for 150k and 145k respecively = 3.33% less damage
    I was explaining where he got his numbers from, not validating his point.

    I can understand the sentiment though. Feels silly to see destro nerfed more than aff.

  18. #18
    The big tuning build hasn't gone out yet. I will wait until that before passing judgement on specs.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrov View Post
    at what point during all of cataclysm did spriests dominate? or did i miss an expansion
    dragon soul.

    even if they don't change anything, demo will have a role in heroic progression, just as it had in T14. not on all fights, of course, but i'm pretty sure it will be good on some.

  20. #20
    I think blizzard focus's way too much on pvp balance for destro to ever be viable for pve, or for that matter affiction to be again viable for pvp.

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