Thread: Federal Reserve

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  1. #41
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    so because it is private owned it does what´s best for the public? while government would do the opposite? is this normal in america? i fail to see that this can only be accomplished by a private owned bank...
    Because it's somewhat like the civil service in Canada. In the US, government officials generally all get canned when the leadership changes; not so in Canada. The staff working in a ministry aren't political. They don't change with the government, and the existing government can't fire them or control their actions directly. This provides stability, since the ministries don't swing nearly as wildly between administrations.

    The federal reserve bank in the US works in much the same way, though with a different execution. It has to be separate from the federal government, so that it doesn't potentially wildly shift every 4 years. That would cause chaos with the money supply, and that would eventually lead to the collapse of the dollar's value, as it ceases to be a trusted currency.

  2. #42
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helheim View Post
    my position is the same as andrew jackson, james madison, thomas jefferson, and charles lindburgh. why should i have to explain myself to you, when everything that needs to be said on the subject has already been said?

    and yeah, i think you are ignorant. that's my 2 cents.

    "The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board as ministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson

    "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

    "Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!" — Andrew Jackson
    I disagree with those people. Jefferson said a lot of things that were nonsense. And the Second Bank of the United States was created under President Madison. And Jackson is one of the greatest villains of the 19th century.
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    debatable ... i´d say the petrodollar isn´t that much better as a goldstandard ^^

    well as soon as someone invents something more usefull than finding oil
    Oil is kind of stupid. Even at today's craptacular low efficiency rates for solar panels if there were enough of them the sun gives off something like 30 energies for a USA sized country every hour, its just not really efficient to build that much solar power because it can't be stored and batteries suck.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 04:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Gold has increased $743.00 in the past 5 years.
    The dollar......is not volatile....
    exactly gold takes wild swings in prices because it is an uncontrolled commodity, while the dollar is kept at a much more reasonable rate rising usually at a rate of 3% or less per year. Volatile currencies cause problems, germany 1920's.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Gold has increased $743.00 in the past 5 years.
    The dollar......is not volatile....
    The dollar is far FAR less volatile than Gold, which has gone up 300+% and back down the same amount in only 5 years in the early 80's. I'd rather the supply of my currency be controllable so that we can avoid such bubbles and crashes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 04:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Oil is kind of stupid. Even at today's craptacular low efficiency rates for solar panels if there were enough of them the sun gives off something like 30 energies for a USA sized country every hour, its just not really efficient to build that much solar power because it can't be stored and batteries suck.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 04:08 PM ----------


    exactly gold takes wild swings in prices because it is an uncontrolled commodity, while the dollar is kept at a much more reasonable rate rising usually at a rate of 3% or less per year. Volatile currencies cause problems, germany 1920's.
    Brazil in the 80's too.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    exactly gold takes wild swings in prices
    From 2004 until 2012 gold never saw a decrease, it saw a 15.4% increase over those 8 years.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Volatile currencies cause problems, germany 1920's.
    while true you can´t just bring up a country and a date and be done with it, at least explain what happened and how it would be possible for the US to go down the same road (i doubt that by the way, still i agree the goldstandard isn´t the solution)

    that video was one of a few that i was referring to on the last page
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX2qvbznGKM
    secretly gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    From 2004 until 2012 gold never saw a decrease, it saw a 15.4% increase over those 8 years.
    Well that's not even true for one, and hyper -deflation is really bad this is what the price of going going up would do all you gold is worth more and more everyday so nobody spends anything and you economy collapses.

  8. #48
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    From 2004 until 2012 gold never saw a decrease, it saw a 15.4% increase over those 8 years.
    From 1990-1983, Gold saw a greater than 300% drop in value. Anything that swings up in value that quickly screams unreliable and volatile. We want to know that the Dollar is going to be worth roughly the same amount a year from now that it is worth now. Otherwise, long term investments become far riskier. If the value is known to increase quickly, people are far more likely to save, reducing consumer spending and hurting the economy. If the value is known to go down rapidly, people are far more likely to spend like crazy, before their money becomes worthless, which carries its own problems. Stability is what we need.
    Go and tell my baby sister
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    Go and spurn that house down in New Orleans
    They call the Rising Sun

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Because it's somewhat like the civil service in Canada. In the US, government officials generally all get canned when the leadership changes; not so in Canada. The staff working in a ministry aren't political. They don't change with the government, and the existing government can't fire them or control their actions directly. This provides stability, since the ministries don't swing nearly as wildly between administrations.

    The federal reserve bank in the US works in much the same way, though with a different execution. It has to be separate from the federal government, so that it doesn't potentially wildly shift every 4 years. That would cause chaos with the money supply, and that would eventually lead to the collapse of the dollar's value, as it ceases to be a trusted currency.
    well this would still be possible without being a private owned bank... isn´t it like with the fbi or cia? they don´t change with every new government now do they?
    secretly gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.

  10. #50
    Stood in the Fire Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Point is privately owned banks control our countries money supply. It doesn't say US Treasury Note.
    I was just curious to see peoples views on that. Most people think since it says "Federal" it is part of the government.
    You keep going on about it not being owned by the government and no one has even said it was. You are essentially arguing with yourself.

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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    while true you can´t just bring up a country and a date and be done with it, at least explain what happened and how it would be possible for the US to go down the same road (i doubt that by the way, still i agree the goldstandard isn´t the solution)

    that video was one of a few that i was referring to on the last page
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX2qvbznGKM
    Germany during the 1920's before Hitler took power was under hyperinflation. This meant that their money was losing value as the hour past. Bread would cost double what it did in the afternoon as it did in the morning. This was caused by the government not knowing how monetary policy worked, and printing vast amounts of money when sections of the economy were starting to go under.

    An economy in hyperinflation does not function as the German people found out. As soon as people got money they spent it before it was worth nothing, at its peak money was worth less than the paper it was printed on so many resorted to burning the money as a fuel source to heat their homes.

  12. #52
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    From 2004 until 2012 gold never saw a decrease, it saw a 15.4% increase over those 8 years.
    1> False. As any check of gold prices over that time would show. General upward trend? Sure. No decreases? No, that's outright false.

    2> 8 years isn't by any means a long-standing trend. Gold is spiking right now, but it's higher than it usually rests. The last time it spiked this high, it crashed back down again.

  13. #53
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    well this would still be possible without being a private owned bank... isn´t it like with the fbi or cia? they don´t change with every new government now do they?
    The FBI/CIA aren't political footballs the way the economy is. People tend to simply care that someone competent is in the positions of FBI Chief and Head of the CIA. When it comes to the economy, however, you'll have candidates making promises to their constituents according to the political winds of the day, competing philosophies could cause wild swings in policy, etc. Congress at the wheel of the Fed would end up decreasing stability horribly, and reducing confidence in the dollar massively. You saw the international reaction to Congressional brinksmanship with the Debt Ceiling? Imagine how that would be with Congressional control of the Fed.
    Go and tell my baby sister
    Not to do what I have done
    Go and spurn that house down in New Orleans
    They call the Rising Sun

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Germany during the 1920's before Hitler took power was under hyperinflation. This meant that their money was losing value as the hour past. Bread would cost double what it did in the afternoon as it did in the morning. This was caused by the government not knowing how monetary policy worked, and printing vast amounts of money when sections of the economy were starting to go under.

    An economy in hyperinflation does not function as the German people found out. As soon as people got money they spent it before it was worth nothing, at its peak money was worth less than the paper it was printed on so many resorted to burning the money as a fuel source to heat their homes.
    which was to a degree caused because germany just lost the first world war and suffered heavy under sanctions, but true, the world learned a lesson at least, i fail to see how this would be possible nowadays in the US

    well if you place the most stupid and unedjucated people in charge allright, it would be possible to create bubble after bubble again
    secretly gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    which was to a degree caused because germany just lost the first world war and suffered heavy under sanctions, but true, the world learned a lesson at least, i fail to see how this would be possible nowadays in the US

    well if you place the most stupid and unedjucated people in charge allright, it would be possible to create bubble after bubble again
    And that is why is out of the political realm because the US and many countries vote in stupid and uneducated people all the time.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    The FBI/CIA aren't political footballs the way the economy is. People tend to simply care that someone competent is in the positions of FBI Chief and Head of the CIA. When it comes to the economy, however, you'll have candidates making promises to their constituents according to the political winds of the day, competing philosophies could cause wild swings in policy, etc. Congress at the wheel of the Fed would end up decreasing stability horribly, and reducing confidence in the dollar massively. You saw the international reaction to Congressional brinksmanship with the Debt Ceiling? Imagine how that would be with Congressional control of the Fed.
    so it wouldn´t be possible to get politics out of the FED if it was under congressional control, but it very well is possible to get its owners ideas and needs out if it even while private owned?
    secretly gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    so it wouldn´t be possible to get politics out of the FED if it was under congressional control, but it very well is possible to get its owners ideas and needs out if it even while private owned?
    The thing is the FED's actions are controlled by a board of 7 or 12 directors ( I can't remember) who are not owners of the bank that are supposed to conduct monetary policy to benefit the country.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    And that is why is out of the political realm because the US and many countries vote in stupid and uneducated people all the time.
    so we stop voting at all xD not like money does have that big of an influence on a daily basis

    sorry i have to leave, read you later/tomorrow
    secretly gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Remember, a firearm homicide is not always firearm violence.

  19. #59
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    so it wouldn´t be possible to get politics out of the FED if it was under congressional control, but it very well is possible to get its owners ideas and needs out if it even while private owned?
    The owners ideas and needs in the Fed are aligned with those of the American public. If the US economy does well, the Fed does well, and vice versa.
    Go and tell my baby sister
    Not to do what I have done
    Go and spurn that house down in New Orleans
    They call the Rising Sun

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    so we stop voting at all xD not like money does have that big of an influence on a daily basis

    sorry i have to leave, read you later/tomorrow
    No we just diversify control of our economy to different entities, the government controls fiscal policy while the FED controls monetary policy.

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