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  1. #21
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    Rogues scale better than most classes.

    Sinister Calling, Find Weakness, Master of Subtlety etc, all scale EXTREMELY WELL. Rogue damage will naturally be buffed by higher ilvl gear moreso than other melees. Then you have the Rogue changes on top. Then you have other class changes. TL;DR - Rogues dominate the meta-game.

    Warriors are getting more damage, and less utility, so it will be a boring, linear playstyle where you don't actually do more damage than other classes, just have no utility. Rogues won't quite be god (that will be monks) but they will have at least 6 top-end viable comps.
    It's actually less damage, due to the change to Overpower costing rage, and the necessity of being in D Stance in PvP to survive rage output is not good enough to keep a high damage rotation, maintain a snare, and survive. It's royally screwed. The rage cost of OP is worse then the Shockwave Nerf. Wars on live are already stacking RESIL to stay alive, while having 25% D Stance and a 20s AOE stun, we can't use battle next patch, we wont have rage, our damage will go down, our defenses are down, and we exit arena.

    But hey Greg Street will accomplish his goal of getting the rogue population percentage up, which is obviously more important then good pvp balance.
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Glockoma View Post
    Rerollers are pathetic

    Infracted
    oke someting is completly wrong here. a person get infrated for telling the truth in a what should i reroll tread. and afaik reroll treads are not allowed... can a mod enlighten me why the this treads is still going strong yet a mod has visited this thread?

  3. #23
    Problem with rogue the rogue class is, that it is so utter boring to play today.

    Mostly just auto attack.

    My rogue has been my main for many years, but rerolled due to the way the development of the rogue has gone. The playstyle differs too much since Vanilla - and that's for the worse IMO.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Phurox View Post
    Problem with rogue the rogue class is, that it is so utter boring to play today.

    Mostly just auto attack.

    My rogue has been my main for many years, but rerolled due to the way the development of the rogue has gone. The playstyle differs too much since Vanilla - and that's for the worse IMO.
    QFT, I enjoyed going rogue every now and then on an alt but now all it feels wrong.

    Sub has way too much focus on passives. The spec that has a description of "A dark stalker who leaps from the shadows to ambush his or her unsuspecting prey." has turned into a "guy who slowly bleeds/autoattacks his target to death while buffing himself with passives".

    Sub was always about strong openers and fast killing from the shadows it doesn't feel right with a weak ambush.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    It's actually less damage, due to the change to Overpower costing rage, and the necessity of being in D Stance in PvP to survive rage output is not good enough to keep a high damage rotation, maintain a snare, and survive. It's royally screwed. The rage cost of OP is worse then the Shockwave Nerf. Wars on live are already stacking RESIL to stay alive, while having 25% D Stance and a 20s AOE stun, we can't use battle next patch, we wont have rage, our damage will go down, our defenses are down, and we exit arena.

    But hey Greg Street will accomplish his goal of getting the rogue population percentage up, which is obviously more important then good pvp balance.
    It's actually more damage. Try it on the PTR, get involved on AJ. Everybody who has tested it laughs because we get more damage.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    It's actually less damage, due to the change to Overpower costing rage, and the necessity of being in D Stance in PvP to survive rage output is not good enough to keep a high damage rotation, maintain a snare, and survive. It's royally screwed. The rage cost of OP is worse then the Shockwave Nerf. Wars on live are already stacking RESIL to stay alive, while having 25% D Stance and a 20s AOE stun, we can't use battle next patch, we wont have rage, our damage will go down, our defenses are down, and we exit arena.

    But hey Greg Street will accomplish his goal of getting the rogue population percentage up, which is obviously more important then good pvp balance.
    And warriors have been balanced in your opinion?

    Warriors have been insanely good. They will remain viable imo, we might see more people choosing dragon roar since they upped shocks CD and more SB for a little more "control".

    The main issue with rogues to be good "enough" was never baseline prep or lower CD on cloak, it's that they fall over when anyone glance at them and the fact that they need to use snd, rupture, evisc, recup and keep feint up to be somewhat effective. Clunky to say the least and next patch won't solve that.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Bazookaberit View Post
    And warriors have been balanced in your opinion?

    Warriors have been insanely good. They will remain viable imo, we might see more people choosing dragon roar since they upped shocks CD and more SB for a little more "control".

    The main issue with rogues to be good "enough" was never baseline prep or lower CD on cloak, it's that they fall over when anyone glance at them and the fact that they need to use snd, rupture, evisc, recup and keep feint up to be somewhat effective. Clunky to say the least and next patch won't solve that.
    yep cata it was just recup up and you had your healing and energy rolling. now you need to use snd for the energy and then recup for the hot.

  8. #28
    Pit Lord DiscoGhost's Avatar
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    rouge damage isnt doing up. utility is going up thru the roof though. -teleports thru pillar to kidney shot u- even though warrior damage is getting nerfed, its still going to be just as good as any other melee. war/rouge/hpally will be the melee comp to play next season.
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    rouge damage isnt doing up. utility is going up thru the roof though. -teleports thru pillar to kidney shot u- even though warrior damage is getting nerfed, its still going to be just as good as any other melee. war/rouge/hpally will be the melee comp to play next season.
    Bug. No longer teleports through LoS or breaks roots.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    rouge damage isnt doing up. utility is going up thru the roof though. -teleports thru pillar to kidney shot u-
    Cloak and Dagger doesn't synergize with Kidney Shot, unless I'm mistaken. If you meant "teleports thru pillar to cheap shot u", you would have to sacrifice a 24 sec ShS for that gimmicky CnD stealth move. So I wouldn't say our utility is "going up thru the roof", but I'll admit we have more options. Assuming you open with a Cloak and Dagger CS/Garrote then pull off two vanishes using Prep, you can get two nice teleports behind your target with a diminshed CS. I can't see myself taking this over ShS, but we'll have to see how well CnD works with Subterfuge.

  11. #31
    Banned ViridianWRA's Avatar
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    FOTM rerollers are the scum of the earth.

    Also, Rogues haven't gotten such a massive buff, the issue is that Warriors kiiiiinda took a big hit.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Choptimus View Post
    It's actually more damage. Try it on the PTR, get involved on AJ. Everybody who has tested it laughs because we get more damage.
    EVERYONE on the PTR has more damage. Every dps spec can compete with warrior one shot macro burst. Every. Single. One.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 05:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrean View Post
    Bug. No longer teleports through LoS or breaks roots.
    If you're talking about cloak and dagger, it still teleports you through los and roots.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 05:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    yep cata it was just recup up and you had your healing and energy rolling. now you need to use snd for the energy and then recup for the hot.
    And keep up rupture if you're either of the two viable pvp specs. As well as feint if you're talented into the damage reduction. Recuperate also heals for crap. It IS exceptionally clunky and is more than likely a bigger part of the reason that rogues are overall under represented than the class being actually weak.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-02-12 at 05:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    It's actually less damage, due to the change to Overpower costing rage, and the necessity of being in D Stance in PvP to survive rage output is not good enough to keep a high damage rotation, maintain a snare, and survive. It's royally screwed. The rage cost of OP is worse then the Shockwave Nerf. Wars on live are already stacking RESIL to stay alive, while having 25% D Stance and a 20s AOE stun, we can't use battle next patch, we wont have rage, our damage will go down, our defenses are down, and we exit arena.

    But hey Greg Street will accomplish his goal of getting the rogue population percentage up, which is obviously more important then good pvp balance.
    So you play a warrior. You are butthurt because you got nerfed. You can no longer mindlessly tunnel damage all day with no consequences while practically every other class in the game dies in one shockwave, while you swifty one shot macro your way to victory.

    Wars on live are already stacking RESIL to stay alive
    Every other class is stacking resilience to stay alive.
    And actually, I've seen plenty of warriors go power because in most arenas, no one bothers attacking the warrior.

    But hey Greg Street will accomplish his goal of getting the rogue population percentage up, which is obviously more important then good pvp balance.
    Don't you have a diary or something? Go write in there or at least go post your QQ in the warrior forums or something.
    Just because you are upset, doesn't mean you have to spread misinformation around...

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    FOTM rerollers are the scum of the earth.

    Also, Rogues haven't gotten such a massive buff, the issue is that Warriors kiiiiinda took a big hit.
    Agreed. But I get infracted when I say that lol. Racism.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by OMGITSDOT View Post
    Subtlety got 4% more damage during a dance and somehow that makes them have the level of damage that Legendaries and Vial gave? Get real, anyone that believes this either didn't play last season or hasn't played on the PTR because they are not the same. I am completely against buffing Rogue damage at all as it stands, since their damage is fine on live, but it is not as bad as last season.
    it is as bad as last season. you seem to pretend like the extra energy they got is not there or means nothing. the burst rogues do on every dance is just unhealable. give us your feedback when you actually played on ptr.

    i like how rogues are throwing out insults like "tunnel more/faceroll..ect" yet they will be doing the same thing in 5.2 since the mongoloid torch has been passed to them.

    @OP
    as for warriors you will be replaced by either a rogue or a monk in almost every single comp out there. it is simply better with a rogue over a warrior.
    Last edited by cexspa; 2013-02-12 at 06:23 PM.

  16. #36
    Legendary! Korgoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns View Post
    So you play a warrior. You are butthurt because you got nerfed. You can no longer mindlessly tunnel damage all day with no consequences while practically every other class in the game dies in one shockwave, while you swifty one shot macro your way to victory.



    Every other class is stacking resilience to stay alive.
    And actually, I've seen plenty of warriors go power because in most arenas, no one bothers attacking the warrior.



    Don't you have a diary or something? Go write in there or at least go post your QQ in the warrior forums or something.
    Just because you are upset, doesn't mean you have to spread misinformation around...
    The misinformation is from these stupid anti warrior posts like this. But hey you are getting your wish, you wont be having to face warriors in the 1400 bracket anymore. You either will be at 2500 because you play rogue or 1200 because you dont play rogue. Have fun with 5.2
    "Gamer" is not a bad word. I identify as a gamer. When calling out those who persecute and harass, the word you're looking for is "asshole." @_DonAdams

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Guns View Post
    So you play a warrior. You are butthurt because you got nerfed. You can no longer mindlessly tunnel damage all day with no consequences while practically every other class in the game dies in one shockwave, while you swifty one shot macro your way to victory.

    Every other class is stacking resilience to stay alive.
    And actually, I've seen plenty of warriors go power because in most arenas, no one bothers attacking the warrior.

    Don't you have a diary or something? Go write in there or at least go post your QQ in the warrior forums or something.
    Just because you are upset, doesn't mean you have to spread misinformation around...
    Well besides the personal attacks at Korgoth I love the irony of you claiming he's "spreading misinformation around".

    We're talking about 5.2. Where every single class rivals warrior one shot macro burst our can OUTburst it.

    Plenty of classes don't stack resilience on PTR. Classes that have exceptionally potent defensives or can kite things well or burst them down before they can react. These include monks (yes, monks are that strong on 5.2), mages and locks. Melee as a whole though necessitate resilience stacking compared to their ranged counter parts.

    Warriors, ON 5.2, going pvp power in arenas are spelling a death sentence for themselves. If you want to deal any damage you need to be in battle stance. And if you're in battle stance any COMPETENT team will hard switch to you and kill you in 5 seconds.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    The misinformation is from these stupid anti warrior posts like this. But hey you are getting your wish, you wont be having to face warriors in the 1400 bracket anymore. You either will be at 2500 because you play rogue or 1200 because you dont play rogue. Have fun with 5.2
    You really think that it will hit us that hard? Damn. I was expecting a nerf, after an insane season obviously, but not that hard.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Korgoth View Post
    The misinformation is from these stupid anti warrior posts like this. But hey you are getting your wish, you wont be having to face warriors in the 1400 bracket anymore. You either will be at 2500 because you play rogue or 1200 because you dont play rogue. Have fun with 5.2
    Your dumb because rogues don't have a second wind that makes them not die. They are still squishy as hell and die in a stun. Stop being butthurt because u can't press 3 buttons on a warrior and win arenas. Helen Keller could play a warrior an get glad. Rogues take more skill than a warrior does and it will be funny when we see all the rerollers from warriors try to play rogues

  20. #40
    In my personal opinion, I think playing the class you enjoy more/matches your play style is more important than which class will be stronger in pvp during the upcoming season. As a 2200+ rated player who played warrior during season 11 (when they were arguably at their weakest), I respect those that stick with the classes they genuinely enjoy over the "flavor of the month" classes.

    Personal opinion aside though, the warrior nerfs will neither destroy their viability, nor make them unplayable. As of right now, they are far too strong - and the nerfs will just bring them into line with other classes (within a reasonable degree, of course balance isn't perfect yet).

    Long story short, both classes will be viable at a high rating next season based on my predictions and the changes in the PTR. Choose whichever class you think you will be able to play well at a high level (do you like the aggressive, in your face style of a warrior? or the more "bide your time, control your opponent, and lock them down for a killing blow" play style of a rogue?).

    I hope this helps!

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