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  1. #1

    WoW needs some new ideas

    After doing the first five or six raids in raidfinder I find them all to be the same formula. Your run into a raid dungeon, kill maybe 2 trash groups then slay a boss. you go to a different wing and maybe kill one or two trash groups then slay a boss. You proceed like this to the final boss which has a little different fight mechanic and slay the boss.

    I know Blizzard has done some things like adding wind that blows you around but I think the dungeons and raids need a little more of a random factor to them. I thought they started down the right road back in Karazhan with the Opera fight. I think that the dungeons need to be longer in general with things like random encounters and random traps like D&D has so you can't sleep through a dungeon. Perhaps even some random secret doors that give an optional fight for a little extra loot. This would make rogues a little more desirable these days allowing them to hunt for secret doors and traps as the party travels through a dungeon.

    The traps could wipe the party if sprung or perhaps give the party a small debuff for a few minutes that would make play a little more annoying. Not something that would make it impossible to complete the dungeon without finding them but enough to make rogues a little more entertaining and to add some spice to the adventure. There are ways to make the game more of a challenge than just making complex boss mechanics.

    Just some thoughts.

  2. #2
    Why fix what isn't broken?
    End SJW
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Why fix what isn't broken?
    Because it's boring as hell.

    HoF is my least favourite raid in the game tbh. It's a gigantic ugly corridor. Mechanics that actually stimulated my brain other than trash packs would be a welcome addition.

  4. #4
    Traps are not a new idea -- there were two trapped areas in Icecrown Citadel (pre-Marrowgar and the Plague Wing).

    Besides, inserting random hidden things would just mean that every group has to bring a rogue so they can do the hidden bosses and not wipe to traps. It wouldn't improve anything. Having an Opera-style random boss event just mean that you have to learn a different fight from week to week. I can assure you that groups won't enjoy wiping all night to a fight, just to have to relearn it the next week.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Traps are not a new idea -- there were two trapped areas in Icecrown Citadel (pre-Marrowgar and the Plague Wing).

    Besides, inserting random hidden things would just mean that every group has to bring a rogue so they can do the hidden bosses and not wipe to traps. It wouldn't improve anything. Having an Opera-style random boss event just mean that you have to learn a different fight from week to week. I can assure you that groups won't enjoy wiping all night to a fight, just to have to relearn it the next week.
    If rogues had value, it might mean people would play them again. Without a rogue, the traps should not be so harsh you couldn't get through without them. It would just be that a rogue could be a slight advantage to the group. I didn't do ICC so I am not familiar with those traps. My main thought is to add some variety and uncertainty to ease the boredom of doing the same dungeon over and over. Learning a different fight would be the fun part of the game. What is so fun about doing a fight that you memorize every keystroke? Some of the side adventures would not have to be that challenging. Perhaps they would drop pets or something that most people would want to try for.

  6. #6
    They did make a vertical dungeon once. You don't remember how the Oculus turned out?

  7. #7
    Also, it's not really a good idea to make 25 random people think too hard as a group.

    It sounds more like your thread title should be Rogues need some tweaking to make them more fun for me to play.
    Last edited by Brash; 2013-02-11 at 07:46 PM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mithfir View Post
    They did make a vertical dungeon once. You don't remember how the Oculus turned out?
    That was a classic example of a monotonous dungeon but with added boring vehicle mechanics. The vertical nature was not so bad except it gave you vertigo and couldn't tell where you were supposed to be next.

  9. #9
    It doesn't really seem like you're going towards any mechanics that would be interesting. What's interesting about a trap killing the whole raid? What is so different about your raid encounters that they won't become boring when people learn every keystroke and every mechanic?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SherbertLand View Post
    It doesn't really seem like you're going towards any mechanics that would be interesting. What's interesting about a trap killing the whole raid? What is so different about your raid encounters that they won't become boring when people learn every keystroke and every mechanic?
    Your question seems argumentative rather than the notion you came in here to add some ideas. My point is that three needs to be more variety to the dungeons in my opinion. Certain things will always be predictable in computer games but when you can add a little more random factors to a dungeon, they add the the overall experience.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Peacemaker65 View Post
    That was a classic example of a monotonous dungeon but with added boring vehicle mechanics. The vertical nature was not so bad except it gave you vertigo and couldn't tell where you were supposed to be next.
    And wouldn't your suggestion just be a monotonous raid with added stupid gimmick traps?

    I remember the suppression room in vanilla. It was cool the first time, then it became a boring time sink. And yes, we slept through BWL clears after a while even with the "interesting" trap mechanic that required Rogues.

  12. #12
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    Something like the slime boss in Naxx?

  13. #13
    You see, the problem is Blizzard doesn't have any new ideas, ever. They only steal other company's ideas and implement them in WoW.

    The only exception is LFD/LFR, and look at what a complete disaster that has been in regards to completely destroying the community aspect of the game.

  14. #14
    From WoWpedia:

    The Suppression Rooms

    The first room contains two groups of dragonkin, which we call a Death Talon Pack. Once the Death Talon Packs have been cleared, your path leads up some stairs and to a pair of interconnected Suppression Rooms.

    Much of the challenge in the Broodlord encounter is embodied by the two mob-infested "suppression" rooms that must be traversed before the fight actually begins. Each room is littered with suppression traps, which must be disarmed by rogues. Guarding the traps are a colorful galaxy of non-elite dragon whelps that must be AoE'd down by Mages and Warlocks, which respawn after 30 seconds. Both rooms also have their own sets of patrolling elite humanoids and Death Talon Hatchers, which respawn on a 20 minute timer. When the suppression traps are up, they radiate an aura that reduces movement speed, attack speed, and casting speed, to 20%.

    Rogues in this portion of the encounter should be doing nothing but disarming traps. Their job is to remain in stealth and move around disarming traps so that the raid can pass through unhindered. Distract should be used as much as possible to prevent the mobs from detecting the rogues' stealth. Disarmed traps pop back up after what seems to be a random amount of time. If this is the case with a trap that the raid is near, it must be guarded and disarmed again until it is safe to leave. Please note also that from the moment a trap pops back up, it takes a second until it may be disarmed again. This process takes just long enough that the trap can release a suppression aura before it is disarmed.

    Also important is keeping mages and warlocks alive to keep the dragon whelps under control. Hunters will be the main source of DPS against elites as caster mana must focused on killing whelps. Mages should have Mage Armor active to allow some regeneration of mana during their AoEs, and should drop to wandshots when their mana is low. It is also a good idea to make sure mages have different types of wand damage as each color whelp is resistant to different types of magic.

    The first suppression room is naturally the easiest, as elites can be pulled out of the suppression traps and effectively tanked in a spot that isn't being hit with periodic suppression auras. Packs should be pulled so that there is only one dragonkin left. At this point, the raid must move itself to the far southwest corner of the room, with everyone positioned so that only the nearby pack of whelps aggroes when they respawn. The time between respawns is when mages and healers can stop to regen their mana/health as well as res any fallen players who would otherwise simply be left behind.

    After the last dragonkin is pulled and killed, the raid moves into the hallway that connects the two suppression rooms. From this spot, the raid must destroy more groups of elites until it is safe to move into the southeast corner of the final suppression room. From here, the remaining elites are cleared and the raid moves into one of the cubby holes to prepare to pull Broodlord. Casters should drink whenever possible and healers should attempt to resurrect anyone that dies whenever they have time.


    ---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 01:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottsdaleHokie View Post
    You see, the problem is Blizzard doesn't have any new ideas, ever. They only steal other company's ideas and implement them in WoW.

    The only exception is LFD/LFR, and look at what a complete disaster that has been in regards to completely destroying the community aspect of the game.
    Blizzard already had a raid encounter exactly as described by the OP in vanilla.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster Orangetai420's Avatar
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    I think a rare spawn boss that engages your party during a random trash pull would be pretty cool.
    Blue text indicates sarcasm or joking.

  16. #16
    I agree with the OP.

    LFR has become a loot machine. You don't do it because it's fun, you do it because you could get loot with little effort. In the short term this might be fine for most players, but in the long term it's just not going to work. But it certainly is not easy to come up with an alternative.

    If you make the LFR harder with more movement or specific actions that are required, then players who don't know how it works will get yelled at. I like LFR because it's one way of gearing up, but the implementation is not correct yet.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by kuku2 View Post
    Traps are not a new idea -- there were two trapped areas in Icecrown Citadel (pre-Marrowgar and the Plague Wing).

    Besides, inserting random hidden things would just mean that every group has to bring a rogue so they can do the hidden bosses and not wipe to traps. It wouldn't improve anything. Having an Opera-style random boss event just mean that you have to learn a different fight from week to week. I can assure you that groups won't enjoy wiping all night to a fight, just to have to relearn it the next week.
    Game would be a lot more fun if developers had the freedom to design content that actually required a little learning.

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Orangetai420 View Post
    I think a rare spawn boss that engages your party during a random trash pull would be pretty cool.
    Like the people who tried to ambush Vol'jin. Put those in SoO! (those be trash)
    And then their leader pops up, he walks around a huge room without knowing where he is, the only way to engage it, is to stand too close. Sounds like an awesome idea imo

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    Game would be a lot more fun if developers had the freedom to design content that actually required a little learning.
    Isn't that the point of raiding though?
    End SJW
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    I fucking hate this LGBT and gender equality shit invading video games.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kosie345 View Post
    I agree with the OP.

    LFR has become a loot machine. You don't do it because it's fun, you do it because you could get loot with little effort. In the short term this might be fine for most players, but in the long term it's just not going to work. But it certainly is not easy to come up with an alternative.

    If you make the LFR harder with more movement or specific actions that are required, then players who don't know how it works will get yelled at. I like LFR because it's one way of gearing up, but the implementation is not correct yet.
    Solution? Don't raid LFR. It's perfectly fine for what it's supposed to be.

    Anyway, Supression Room. It was fun the first times, after that, it became a pain and hinder to a fast BWL run. That's all what trap encounters bring, fun for the first few times, annoyance after that.
    Last edited by Tauror; 2013-02-11 at 09:53 PM.

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