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  1. #221
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seezer View Post
    So that's a yes? Then how about you suck it up and do what your guildies want since you know, this isn't a single player game. You're really reaching for everything you can to justify 5.2 being held off. But T14 isn't going anywhere. And if you and your guildies can't come to some kind of compromise, that's on you. Not for everyone else to have to wait for.
    Most guilds haven't finished T14.

    Most players will want to leave T14 alone and do the new stuff.

    Seems like a waste of blizzards efforts, really. I thought they were going to stop that?
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  2. #222
    I've seen a lot of people pissed because they haven't cleared heroic Sha yet. And this coming from people that have just cleared Terrace last month.

    I miss when people didn't have a sense of entitlement in this game. Just be glad we're getting a CRAP load of content in a very short amount of time. We're getting more game for our money.

  3. #223
    There are nearly 10 million wow players so no matter what happens there will be a small minority who complain about it. There is literally not a single change that could be made to wow without some people complaining.

    This isn't just a wow problem though.... If you had 10 million people taking part in any concievable activity there would be some people complaining about any changes made to that activity.

    5.2 is probbly coming about the right time for my guild. We made our 1st tries on Sha of fear yesterday and have him down to about 40% in phase 2 now and that was despite having a far from optimal raid setup on the 2nd day. We should get it down this week or next I think... but certainly before 5.2. Would have got it ages ago if we hadn't lost both our tanks and all 3 healers right before christmas...

    The 5.2 raids aren't going anywhere so for those who really want to finish them after 5.2 comes out you still can. If you are going to prefer to do the 5.2 raids when 5.2 comes out then i'm not actually sure what you are complaining about.... Complaining about being given new stuff that you'd rather do than the old stuff makes no sense.
    Last edited by Paulosio; 2013-02-12 at 01:21 AM.

  4. #224
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisposableHero View Post
    Fun fact, wowprogress stats show Tier 14 normal AND heroic when adjusted for overall population differences to be harder than Tier 11.

    Halfus Heroic was the easiest heroic by how many guilds killed him, approximately 21,000 guilds had a heroic halfus kill by the release of 4.2, population adjusted from 12 million to 9.6 million that works out to 16,800 guilds in today's population. 12,000 guilds have a heroic stone guard kill.

    Heroic Sha of Fear Kills - 416
    Heroic Sinestra kills - 1100, adjusted for population 880, more than twice as many

    Normal Sha of Fear - 11874 kills
    Normal Nefarian (the least killed t11 boss on normal) - 26,405 by 4.2, adjusted for population 21,124

    Tier 11 and 14 are very similar tiers in terms of content access. Both spanned Christmas, both were similar size (14 bosses vs 16 bosses), Tier 11 lasted 6 months, Tier 14 looks to last 5 months, both were expansion drop tiers, so 5 levels of leveling were involved at the beginning plus gearing up through heroics.

    So for those saying Dragon Soul was the problem, you are half correct. It was pretty objectively too easy, the raid was too short, and the content was left to sit too long. That said, T14 when compared with T11 is a smaller time window, more bosses, and demonstrably substantially harder, and substantially less rewarding. Any guild outside the top 300-400 in the world according to wow progress is feeling that effect.
    Your comparison is not really valid. First of all, tier 11 had 13 heroic bosses, 12 on normal (not 14).

    Second of all, ToES and HoF were released much later than MSV, giving guilds less time to progress and obtain better loot from there (much less time than guilds had to work with back during tier 11). And MSV farming has also been pretty damn useless throughout tier 14 seeing as how poor loot it drops.

    Lastly there were like approximately 2-3 more million players playing during tier 11. There were also far more real 'raiders' back then, seeing as LFR wasn't invented, as well as most guilds who otherwise weren't able to survive the expansion (a lot of raiders quit before an expansion/big patch) were able to downsize to 10man and survive.


    From those 8-10 heroic bosses I did 2 months back (those handful of weeks I raided this expansion pack), I'd say that this tier was tuned below normal standards. Though gear upgrades and that akward split between MSV and HoF/ToES played a big part of giving this tier that 'undertuned' feeling.

    In general I didn't like it. Tier 14 is definitely below tier 11, 10 and 8 standards. No real epic boss like heroic Ragnaros/Lich King either.
    Last edited by Funkthepunk; 2013-02-12 at 01:35 AM.

  5. #225
    To tell you the truth, I am not sorry this patch is coming out now. I'm not doing normal or heroic mode raids. I am very down on their design now. I want Blizzard to screw this up as badly as possible, and outraging most of the people who are still trying to do those raids is a great step in that direction.

    Continue to fail, Blizzard. I'm rooting for you.
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    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  6. #226
    Herald of the Titans Injin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanson71 View Post
    I've seen a lot of people pissed because they haven't cleared heroic Sha yet. And this coming from people that have just cleared Terrace last month.
    They aren't very representative of wows raiders, whoever they are.
    I miss when people didn't have a sense of entitlement in this game. Just be glad we're getting a CRAP load of content in a very short amount of time. We're getting more game for our money.
    Agreed, it's nice to have new things to do But then again, some of us already did and now never will. hey ho, such is life.
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  7. #227
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    It's not coming in 2 weeks.
    Bashiok said that he was looking at what he would do two weeks before 5.2
    Nowhere did he say that 5.2 IS in two weeks.
    Also there's another bluepost that says what most of us know: they rarely give patch release dates before it's ready to go within a reset (week)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Of course we don’t tend to give out patch release dates ahead of time, because things can slip, but right now we’re targeting the last week of February.
    That seems relatively clear. I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop back a week from that but last week of February is two weeks away by my calendar.
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  8. #228
    Well everyone that is complaining is mostly people who:

    Not finished 16/16 normal mode
    is like 14-15/16 hc and really close to killing sha

    everyone mid pack progression can accept that they did not clear everything in time and people who just LFR/do dailies are probebly all in full gear and starting the get bored. Myself farming 16 hc every week think more content is always nice even though i am missing a few pieces.

    Hopefully blizzard will tune t15 around 500+ ilvl so guilds stuck at 3/16hc modes get the nice 10% damage buff to help them out but would get smashed if they tried going in the new raid and even a few high end guild might wanna run terrace/hof hc clears for a week to get all the gear so progression path would be
    MSV N
    hof N
    Toes N
    MSV HC
    Hof HC
    thunder king
    toes HC
    thunder king hc

    generally speaking ofc some bosses will be easier ect ect

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanson71 View Post
    I've seen a lot of people pissed because they haven't cleared heroic Sha yet.
    Well over half the guilds haven't even walked into ToES NORMAL yet.... that is a problem.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    No matter what Blizzard does, there will always be people who whine and bitch simply for the sake of whining and bitching.

    I've learned to ignore it really.
    This kinda much says it all really.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    And again - this is not a single player game like you think it is.
    I was talking to you in the sense of you=your raid that has not cleared the content. And since it is a game for many people there are many people who want new content. I'm one of them. If you deny me new content because YOU are not finished with the old one you are selfish. If I get new new content YOU can still play the old content. So there is only one correct answer what Blizzard should do: Release the new content.




  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    To tell you the truth, I am not sorry this patch is coming out now. I'm not doing normal or heroic mode raids. I am very down on their design now. I want Blizzard to screw this up as badly as possible, and outraging most of the people who are still trying to do those raids is a great step in that direction.

    Continue to fail, Blizzard. I'm rooting for you.
    If they released it in 2 months people would still complain. The problem is people think the world revolves around them and want everything done to suit themselves. When 5.2 comes the current raid tier willl have been out for around 5 months. That's long enough. Bring on the new content.

  13. #233
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    To tell you the truth, I am not sorry this patch is coming out now. I'm not doing normal or heroic mode raids. I am very down on their design now. I want Blizzard to screw this up as badly as possible, and outraging most of the people who are still trying to do those raids is a great step in that direction.

    Continue to fail, Blizzard. I'm rooting for you.
    I think you're missing the real point. Normal/heroic raiding is now even more a niche than before. There's no reason to hold up content for such a small group. The portion of the raiding community that hasn't completed T14 will chafe at the idea of moving on without finishing and some will/some won't. But it's not really that big of an issue with most players. And the raids are there whenever you want to go back with better gear. The much, much larger "LFR-Primarily" crowd will be mostly delighted at gearing up and going into the new raid. Numbers matter.

    Your earlier comments about Cataclysm are a bit off-target I think. Most of the complaining about heroics in that case was dungeons, not raids. There's no such issue in MoP and that's not the case here.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-02-12 at 01:27 AM.
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  14. #234
    I honestly wish I had another 4 weeks :x I still have a few BiS pieces left. I want to be as geared as possible going into 5.2 for the progression race :/

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well over half the guilds haven't even walked into ToES NORMAL yet.... that is a problem.
    I'd imagine most of those guilds haven't really made an effort to try and get into ToES. In their case they probably stilll wouldn't have done it in 3 months time because it's not their aim or they aren't good enough and need to make more effort if they care about seeing the newer content.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well over half the guilds haven't even walked into ToES NORMAL yet.... that is a problem.
    No that's no problem. ToES normal/hero will not be deleted in 2 weeks. It's still there and everbody can still try and clear it. They even get an optional 10% nerf so they may finally get past a showstopper boss for them. People who have 5.1 on farm can visit the new raid. All is fine that way. Everybody is free to do what he prefers. Your solution to hold back the content makes people who finished 5.1 content getting bored, maybe stop playing for a few months.




  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    I'd imagine most of those guilds haven't really made an effort to try and get into ToES.
    Well - we have made every effort, however 2 months just wasn't enough time.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschaton View Post
    I think you're missing the real point. Normal/heroic raiding is now even more a niche than before.
    Yes, I know. I want it to become an even smaller niche, the smaller the better.

    I encourage everyone who has been doing normal raiding this tier to ask themselves if it was really worth it, given that you likely got bogged down well before clearing the raids on normal mode.

    Your comments about Cataclysm are a bit off-target I think. Most of the complaining about heroics in that case was dungeons, not raids.
    Heroic 5 mans gated the raids, but you can be sure there were problems in the raids, too. T12 participation stank after so many guilds didn't clear T11. This tier looks even worse.
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  19. #239
    I'm actually kind of getting pissed off. The official forums have quite a few whinefest threads going on about it being too soon. Blizzard has a track record of caving into the whiners over there. I'm betting the patch will be pushed back a couple weeks now because of those losers.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    Well - we have made every effort, however 2 months just wasn't enough time.
    Just continue. Nobody if forcing you to do 5.2 content next month.




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