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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by felhunter View Post
    the overall feeling in my guild is that it is a shame 5.2 is coming out already. we're 12/16hc atm and had liked an extra month for more progress before starting on the new content.
    we aint complaining that it is too early, but if it was a tad slower we wouldnt be angry about that also.
    You still have 3-4 weeks (a month! Shocker) to complete the content... it's not like it's coming out tomorrow. the content will have been available nearly 6 months.... that's more then enough for any content tier.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 05:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post

    When did Februry 26 get moved to the March calendar?
    Blue post yesterday or 2 days ago stating : "If you’ve already made plans and sank your Valor, don’t fret! As of this announcement, and even if you have 0 Valor currently, you still have enough time to cap out at 3000 Valor before patch 5.2 goes live. (It’s math!)", that would mean there are at LEAST 3 weeks before 5.2.... that 26th february never was an official date, but hey, everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

    Source -> http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...eep-Your-Valor!
    Last edited by hulkgor; 2013-02-14 at 05:48 PM.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    It takes no longer for the skilled players that we are talking about to run a couple of heroic bosses than it does to wait in que for an hour and then wipe a few times in LFR.
    I assume you mean that if a player has time to do LFR, then they have time to raid at a level capable of taking down heroic raids. That works great for someone with a set schedule that never (or extremely rarely) varies, and/or is available during times that line up with the raiding schedule of a guild capable of taking down heroic raid content. But there are many highly skilled players for whom neither of those things are true. Again, skill (or lack thereof) is not the only reason someone would run LFR exclusively.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    You still have 3-4 weeks (a month! Shocker) to complete the content... it's not like it's coming out tomorrow. the content will have been available nearly 6 months.... that's more then enough for any content tier.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 05:46 PM ----------



    Blue post yesterday or 2 days ago stating : "If you’ve already made plans and sank your Valor, don’t fret! As of this announcement, and even if you have 0 Valor currently, you still have enough time to cap out at 3000 Valor before patch 5.2 goes live. (It’s math!)", that would mean there are at LEAST 3 weeks before 5.2.... that 26th february never was an official date, but hey, everyone jumped on the bandwagon.

    Source -> http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...eep-Your-Valor!
    You gota agree Bashiock made it sound pretty set in stone, and the blue post about the Valor might simply mean you get 2k VP this week and the next patch comes Feb 26th and them you get another 1k and cap Valor.

    If it comes early/mid March I think itll be the perfect length, I probably wont be fnished with this heroic tier yet but my guild adimitedly dont raid on hardcore schedule due to RL, but at least well have been given a fair shot, like pretty much every other guild that do some sort or another of heroic progression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    I assume you mean that if a player has time to do LFR, then they have time to raid at a level capable of taking down heroic raids. That works great for someone with a set schedule that never (or extremely rarely) varies, and/or is available during times that line up with the raiding schedule of a guild capable of taking down heroic raid content. But there are many highly skilled players for whom neither of those things are true. Again, skill (or lack thereof) is not the only reason someone would run LFR exclusively.
    This is 100% true there are plenty of quality players that do LFR only due to time constraints. I think LFR is an awesome adition to the game allows for every kind of player (skilled or otherwise, with plenty of time or not) to have some form of raiding and character progression to look foward to. I kust dont like when LFR is too rewarding, so much so it makes normal modes/ heroic modes raiders feel like they have to run LFR every week on top of the raid they normaly do.
    Last edited by DakonBlackblade; 2013-02-14 at 06:07 PM.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    If it comes early/mid March I think itll be the perfect length, well have been given a fair shot.
    Only 5 months is hardly a fair shot, it should be at least 8 for that amount of bosses.

  5. #545
    i guess ppl are afraid that 5.3 or 5.4 will be 3 times the wait because of that quick release

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    I assume you mean that if a player has time to do LFR, then they have time to raid at a level capable of taking down heroic raids. That works great for someone with a set schedule that never (or extremely rarely) varies, and/or is available during times that line up with the raiding schedule of a guild capable of taking down heroic raid content. But there are many highly skilled players for whom neither of those things are true. Again, skill (or lack thereof) is not the only reason someone would run LFR exclusively.
    In my case, it's just extreme social anxiety, and not wanting to use vent and the like with strangers, or feel that I'm being judged by people I'll have to "deal with". It'd seriously cause me to have a panic attack, and I play the game to relax and have fun. I know people will laugh at me and insult me for that, but that's absolutely the only reason I don't do stuff like that, as a fairly skilled player.

    Other reasons I could imagine for other people, would be that it's hard to find a "team" so to speak, that wants their class and role, along with scheduling. There's many reasons people don't do that stuff.

    Look at the statistics on raiding. Very few people do it. Below 5% at the worst of times, around 20% or so at the best of times. You can't chalk all of that up to skill. You can't even, I imagine, chalk a majority of it, even, to just skill. Hell, there's probably more people who simply don't know raiding EXISTS than there are people who are not doing it from the "lack of skills", or whatever.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Only 5 months is hardly a fair shot, it should be at least 8 for that amount of bosses.
    An 8 month raid tier would be FAR too long, and would also be the longest lasting raid tier, regardless of size, with the exception of ICC and DS which both came at the end of expansions and were thus of an artificially extended length. 32+ weeks for 16 bosses is grossly excessive.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    In my case, it's just extreme social anxiety, and not wanting to use vent and the like with strangers, or feel that I'm being judged by people I'll have to "deal with". It'd seriously cause me to have a panic attack, and I play the game to relax and have fun. I know people will laugh at me and insult me for that, but that's absolutely the only reason I don't do stuff like that, as a fairly skilled player.

    Other reasons I could imagine for other people, would be that it's hard to find a "team" so to speak, that wants their class and role, along with scheduling. There's many reasons people don't do that stuff.

    Look at the statistics on raiding. Very few people do it. Below 5% at the worst of times, around 20% or so at the best of times. You can't chalk all of that up to skill. You can't even, I imagine, chalk a majority of it, even, to just skill. Hell, there's probably more people who simply don't know raiding EXISTS than there are people who are not doing it from the "lack of skills", or whatever.
    Actualy the reasons why you dont raid is actualy a fairly common one and youre more tham right skill is the least of the problems stopping ppl from raiding on heroic level (and lets be honest its not easy but it realy sint that hard, ppl act like raiding heroics is just for the WoW genious or whatever, its not, average Joes can do pretty well with some dedication and patience).

    Dont know bro but maybe you could try to use some form of very casual raiding as a way to help with your social anxiety not sure if that could help ya.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otiswhitaker View Post
    Hell, there's probably more people who simply don't know raiding EXISTS than there are people who are not doing it from the "lack of skills", or whatever.
    It takes ALOT to not know that raiding exists, lol.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    The people doin 10k are not doing it because they suck at playing, they do it because they know they can go afk and do nothing while pulling down loot.
    Right. This is why LFR really needs to be augmented with personal accountability, for example by keeping track of some sort of performance score and modifying the rewards based on that score.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    An 8 month raid tier would be FAR too long, and would also be the longest lasting raid tier, regardless of size, with the exception of ICC and DS which both came at the end of expansions and were thus of an artificially extended length. 32+ weeks for 16 bosses is grossly excessive.
    32 bosses if you count normal mode bosses, which are required to start on heroic. 1 week per boss is more than reasonable, 8 months would be perfect.

  12. #552
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    I assume you mean that if a player has time to do LFR, then they have time to raid at a level capable of taking down heroic raids. That works great for someone with a set schedule that never (or extremely rarely) varies, and/or is available during times that line up with the raiding schedule of a guild capable of taking down heroic raid content. But there are many highly skilled players for whom neither of those things are true. Again, skill (or lack thereof) is not the only reason someone would run LFR exclusively.
    where do you draw the line when making excuses to support a statement that ANY world class player would allow (insert excuse here) to relegate themselves to "only running raid finder". They wouldn't they would unsub.





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  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    32 bosses if you count normal mode bosses, which are required to start on heroic. 1 week per boss is more than reasonable, 8 months would be perfect.
    If your raid is capable of killing a heroic boss, never mind clearing the heroic raids, then there is no way that clearing normal should take 4 months. And if it does take you 4 months to clear normal, then it will take your raid FAR longer than an additional 4 months to clear the heroic content. 5-6 months is more than enough time for a raid tier. 7 at the most, but you would hear a ton of complains about the lack of content.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  14. #554
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    32 bosses if you count normal mode bosses, which are required to start on heroic. 1 week per boss is more than reasonable, 8 months would be perfect.
    I dissagree. I have three players in my ten man team that cannot operate the constructs. No matter how it is explained and how many times we wipe they still continue to not press one, after the dbm warning, after the extremely slow cast bar, and after the 9 other players telling them in mumble to press it. We are therefor stuck at ambershaper not due to lack of skill at anyones class but due to what in my opinion is a stupid vehicle fight. 3 weeks of 1-2 nights a week. Stuck.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    where do you draw the line when making excuses to support a statement that ANY world class player would allow (insert excuse here) to relegate themselves to "only running raid finder". They wouldn't they would unsub.
    Why? Again, you are making the (highly incorrect) assumption that simply because a player has the skill to participate at a world class level, that they would not only automatically be interested in doing exactly that, but would equally be uninterested in doing anything else nor have any other motivation for playing the game. You are at this point either being intentionally stubborn, or are completely ignorant if the idea that different people have different motivations and circumstances, making it impossible to issue a blanket statement such as you are trying to do.
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    If your guild demands you slip into an elephants butt and force yourself out in a regurgation then you can't blame Blizzard for supplying the elephant.

  16. #556
    My guild is 10/16H and about to push 12/16H. I wouldn't mind another 2 months in this tier to clear the content, we could probably do it in just another 4 weeks if we had to. We had a late start and rough times raiding around the holidays this tier. I don't think this tier has been 'drawn out'.
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  17. #557
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    Why? Again, you are making the (highly incorrect) assumption that simply because a player has the skill to participate at a world class level, that they would not only automatically be interested in doing exactly that, but would equally be uninterested in doing anything else nor have any other motivation for playing the game. You are at this point either being intentionally stubborn, or are completely ignorant if the idea that different people have different motivations and circumstances, making it impossible to issue a blanket statement such as you are trying to do.

    I can see your opinion and where it comes from. However it is a non arguement to state that a player capable of raiding lets say as low as top us 500 would be content with LFR. If that were the case I would have a LOT more sub players on my bench.





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

  18. #558
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    Speaking of top 500, Sha HC still doesn't even have 500 guilds who killed him yet. In the US region alone there are even less than 100 guilds who killed him. The current tier needs to last at least several more months.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    His statement is totally accurate. Just because someone runs only LFR does not mean they are bad. It could very easily mean that their schedule does not allow for scheduled raiding, thus LFR is their only option. People who picked up this game when they were in their teens or early 20s, the ones chasing world firsts in Vanilla and TBC, are now in their mid 20s to early 30s and likely have jobs, families, and other commitments that have lowered their available playing time. It doesn't mean they got bad. It just means they can't hold to a Mon-Thurs 4 hours a night raiding schedule any longer.
    This is true, I dont 100% do HC anymore. Job kids wife makes it hard to pull the raid times and still be able to pvp and do the other stuff on wow I like to do. Been doing lfr a pug normal, but when my guild asks me to come and dps/heal/tank a HC boss I fit right in. Its not like HC are actually as hard as people make them out to be they just require you to put in the time to learn the fights and the people you are playing with.

  20. #560
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Right. This is why LFR really needs to be augmented with personal accountability, for example by keeping track of some sort of performance score and modifying the rewards based on that score.
    cannot agree more. I actually think that LFR should be used as a means to SEE or practice the mechanics. Remove the loot and you will have people in there that are there for a purpose.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 02:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Miko View Post
    This is true, I dont 100% do HC anymore. Job kids wife makes it hard to pull the raid times and still be able to pvp and do the other stuff on wow I like to do. Been doing lfr a pug normal, but when my guild asks me to come and dps/heal/tank a HC boss I fit right in. Its not like HC are actually as hard as people make them out to be they just require you to put in the time to learn the fights and the people you are playing with.
    right. thank you for stepping up. exactly how happy would you be, and would you choose to run LFR only?





    There is no bad RNG only bad L2P

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