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  1. #461
    I don't understand why people are complaining about normals

    Nowadays people are pugging up to 6/6H MSV and HoF and there are still dedicated groups who can't clear normals? It probably means that they are not raiding seriously at all or have some braindead people in the group.
    Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2013-02-12 at 10:11 PM.

  2. #462
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Osmeric has some data.

    You've got none.

    Guess who wins?
    It doesn't matter for me who wins mate really.

    I'm not here to argue or anything I'm just stating my own experience and opinion that I myself don't judge ppl by their data or achievements or loot or whatever but I truely judge their skills and attitude when I play with them in live this mentality I use in real life as well not only video games.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by glenjemin View Post
    I seriously can't believe that after reading 24 pages of posts in their entirety, only this person and a handful of others had actual constructive feedback and did not become part of the nonsensical babbling that is the majority of this thread. The people "complaining" about 5.2 coming too early are mostly semi-hardcore raiders who are partially completed with 16/16 H T14. Not clearing normal mode in 5 months is clearly due to either lack of dedication, time or resources. Those who have already cleared 16/16H can be defined as hardcore guilds and total only about 1% of the population at this point.

    The 5 months of time given to us so far to clear 16/16H simply isn't enough time for most people who raid 9-12 hours or less per week. There are no other reasons behind the lack of heroic progression for the majority of semi-hardcore guilds other than time itself.

    I'm not saying this major raid content patch should be pushed back 2 or 3 months. Even though my 25m guild is currently only 8/16H due to recruitment issues, I'd still like to at least see a heroic boss or two in ToES before moving on to new raids. For those who are just starting on heroic ToES, another 4-5 weeks instead of 2 could make the difference in clearing this tier while it's still current and relevant.

    To those of you saying "just finish 5.0/5.1 raids after 5.2 is released" there's probably a 95% chance you are not a heroic/progression raider so you wouldn't understand that getting further behind by spending your guild's time on older content instead of jumping right into what's current is simply not an option. At least not for any guild who wants to be able to continue recruiting for their roster in the future.

    It's just so incredibly ironic that Blizz admitted and realized their mistake of making Ulduar obsolete by releasing ToC too soon and that they'd like to correct that mistake by not letting the content get wasted. That's exactly what they're doing if they release 5.2 at the end of this month.
    This is basicaly what Ive been trying to say, my guild is 10/16 heroic and were yet to find one boss in the tier that is a brickwall for us, were killing everything in 1 week (Will took us 2 weeks and Imperial Vizier almost did as well we killed him in the last hour of our raid for the week basicaly), so ppl can go around saying whatever they want about skill it simply isnt true, the same could be said for pretty much every other semi-hardcore raiding guild out there, ppl have skill and know what theyre doing but dont have tiem to raid too much, this scenario has never been an issue so far, these guilds all managed to clear the content, maybe theyd finish on world 3000 but seriously ppl who raid with a semi-hardcore mentality could care less for that, but theyd finish the content. This tier blizz is simply moving things too fast cause it freaking has 16 bosses, its not 8 or whatever is 16 thats a craptom of bosses.

    Give us some time, the complaints about content not coming fast enought were because a 8 boss tier lasted for 9 months thats just insane, every hardcore, semi-hadcore and even casual guilds had time to clear the content and farm it to the bones, this time its diferent there are alot more bosses on the tier, and nobody is asking for another 9 months, were simply asking for 6 months and not 5. If you factor in the gatd release of the raids, the time it takes ppl to lv and gear and the hollidays you can knock out 1 full month or more so its even shorter.
    Last edited by DakonBlackblade; 2013-02-12 at 10:26 PM.

  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    It doesn't matter for me who wins mate really.

    I'm not here to argue or anything I'm just stating my own experience and opinion that I myself don't judge ppl by their data or achievements or loot or whatever but I truely judge their skills and attitude when I play with them in live this mentality I use in real life as well not only video games.
    That's nice and everything - but wasn't what was being discussed, which was the number of raiders who have cleared everything on normal (only 30% of them according to the best numbers available.)

  5. #465
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    The thing is with about 10m ppl playing the game if just 0.1% of them QQ a little thats like 1000 ppl QQing and on forums that looks like ALOT when all the QQing comes at the same time. there will always be someone who is unhappy and that is fine. but sadly it is also always the group of unhappy ppl that are the loudest

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    simply asking for 6 months and not 5.
    And after 6 months, the guilds who are 10/16 heroic will have the same complaint, and asking for 7 months instead of 6.

    Where do you draw the line? Do you think Blizz should simply release content at the schedule that your guild clears it? Because that seems to be your exact request.

  7. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    And after 6 months, the guilds who are 10/16 heroic will have the same complaint, and asking for 7 months instead of 6.

    Where do you draw the line? Do you think Blizz should simply release content at the schedule that your guild clears it? Because that seems to be your exact request.
    I think that only 30% of guilds having cleared normal is a bit telling, really. If you were aiming at keeping people happy in general, you'd aim for the average of around 50%.

    For most raiders, T14 is far from finished - but only in two weeks it will be obsolete for them regardless.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by yjmark View Post
    And after 6 months, the guilds who are 10/16 heroic will have the same complaint, and asking for 7 months instead of 6.

    Where do you draw the line? Do you think Blizz should simply release content at the schedule that your guild clears it? Because that seems to be your exact request.
    We draw the line on a point where more tham just 400 guilds have killed heroic sha realy... 6 months is (probably) fast enought for those who eat the content in 2 weeks (aka world first racers) and slow enought for those who like clearing content but dont have much time to raid, many guilds in this category wont have killed the sha but most of them will have had a shot at least, as it stands now none of these guilds will even have a chance of trying the fight. Its also enought for mostly of the more casual guilds to clear normals or at least try normal sha and some even might try theyre feet on 1 or 2 heroics.

    Its beyond fast to release it when only 1% of the entire raiding population has killed the last boss in the tier tough, for instance I have a bunch of friends who are on the world 500thsh guild on wowprogress and they havent killed the sha yet and think the patch might be too fast and they wont manage to, for crying out loud if the world 500 guild havent cleared the freaking content yet its definetly too fast to release more.
    Last edited by DakonBlackblade; 2013-02-12 at 10:37 PM.

  9. #469
    Stood in the Fire Machomaije's Avatar
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    Did they announce 5.2? Havent seen anything about. And I am pretty sure the PvP forum would fill up with threads about end of the season

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Machomaije View Post
    Did they announce 5.2? Havent seen anything about. And I am pretty sure the PvP forum would fill up with threads about end of the season
    Bashiok said its in 2 weeks, considering the amount of testing they still have to do theres a debate going around if theyll manage it or not.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    I think that only 30% of guilds having cleared normal is a bit telling, really. If you were aiming at keeping people happy in general, you'd aim for the average of around 50%.

    For most raiders, T14 is far from finished - but only in two weeks it will be obsolete for them regardless.
    Not saying that I disagree with you but do you not think that the lack guilds that have cleared the content is to do with the difficulty and a much easier alternative being available rather that the raids not being available long enough?

  12. #472
    I'm not complaining but as has been posted already my worry is the time between patches after this one. As long as they keep pushing patches out at a good pace I'm good with it, just don't want to be stuck with Throne of Thunder for like 10 months. Of course we think its nice that new content is coming sooner....especially when its a big awaited raid. But on the other hand the number of guilds that are 16/16h is astronomically low right now....I don't think anyone would say that the current content has definitely reached the end of its lifespan. 2-3 more months would've be nice just so that the semi-hardcore guilds (mine included) can get to the finish line....all I'm saying.

  13. #473
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Not saying that I disagree with you but do you not think that the lack guilds that have cleared the content is to do with the difficulty and a much easier alternative being available rather that the raids not being available long enough?
    Oh absolutely you can see it that way legitimately.

    T14 wasn't as bad as T11 for being overtuned, but it was getting there. Especially stone guards, a ludicrously complicated encounter for a first boss.

  14. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by antelope591 View Post
    I'm not complaining but as has been posted already my worry is the time between patches after this one. As long as they keep pushing patches out at a good pace I'm good with it, just don't want to be stuck with Throne of Thunder for like 10 months. Of course we think its nice that new content is coming sooner....especially when its a big awaited raid. But on the other hand the number of guilds that are 16/16h is astronomically low right now....I don't think anyone would say that the current content has definitely reached the end of its lifespan. 2-3 more months would've be nice just so that the semi-hardcore guilds (mine included) can get to the finish line....all I'm saying.
    lol. in 2-3 months you would have like milion people quiting becasue of boredom.
    in 2-3 months current tier would last for 8 months, and thats the shit Blizzard tries to avoid this time.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Oh absolutely you can see it that way legitimately.

    T14 wasn't as bad as T11 for being overtuned, but it was getting there. Especially stone guards, a ludicrously complicated encounter for a first boss.
    Isn't that the issue we should really be looking at rather than asking for Blizzard to delay the patch, currently we have a small number of gifted guilds that clear the content very quickly who are awaiting the next raid, we have a large number of people that only experience the content through LFR who are bored out their brains after clearly the content in a few weeks and then we have the guilds that are still working through the current raid on normal and heroic.

    The way I see it is that is a lose/lose situation for everyone involved content needs to come faster to entertain those that do not raid and raids, especially on normal, need to be made easier so that those that want to experience the content can do so without holding back content for others.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    lol. in 2-3 months you would have like milion people quiting becasue of boredom.
    in 2-3 months current tier would last for 8 months, and thats the shit Blizzard tries to avoid this time.
    Who are these millions of people who would quit and what would change in 2-3 months that hasn't already caused them to quit? If you're 16/16h with BiS or if you're absolutely done with LFR/dungeons and don't do any normal or heroic raids then you're part of groups that will never have enough content specific to them to keep them happy unless patches are released every few weeks. If you're in between these 2 groups and still working on the current raid content then yes it definitely has about 2-3 more months of life.

  17. #477
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    I am in the camp that believes 5.2 is just a little too soon. A lot of people seem to forget that a majority of 'raiders' had to deal with leveling, gearing up for normal modes, and then actually downing normal bosses. The amount of time that took varied vastly; your heroic raiders (a minority) rushed to level cap in 1-2 days, had workarounds to stuff that normally stalled regular raiders, and quickly dispatched content- because that's what they do.

    In no way am I trying to state this as fact, but only going off of information available to me, it seems like most raiders took their time getting to level cap and then gearing up for normal modes. Especially when you're in the mindset still from Cataclysm when your experience has been, 'Why rush? It's just going to sit there for 6+ months anyways' - Yes, blizzard said they would try to push out content faster, but I'm sure most of the playerbase should be excused for being a tad skeptical.

    Plus, even while leveling, every other NPC was telling you to 'Slow down! Enjoy life!' I have to say I drank a little of this Kool-aid, and I very much enjoyed the leveling experience MoP had to offer. Jade Forest is one of the most beautiful zones I've played in.

    Mini-digression aside, taking into account the leveling process and the gating of each raid, level-cap content really hasn't been out that long compared to what we've been accustomed to; hence the backlash.

    It's unfortunate that I probably won't get to clear all of normal modes before 5.2 hits, but I'm not complaining. I know our raid group was a little behind the 8-ball when we started in MSV. Now that people don't have to worry about the whole leveling process, if they keep content coming out at this pace, I believe it would be perfect.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  18. #478
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    Serioussly, if there are people who want raid tier last for 8 months or longer, and with their whining they will encourage Blizzard to do this, I may as well quit WoW now, because I will never be fine with it.

  19. #479
    It's really only us progression raiders that have an issue with the timing of this patch. There are many, many great changes coming in 5.2 that even I sincerely look forward to. The issue simply lies in the fact that this patch also releases a new raid before we have had a chance to complete 16/16H. The fact that Blizz decided to add the Feats of Strength in the same patch throws even more incentive in the mix to complete the tier before its made obsolete to most
    progression based guilds. Hell, I can't imagine how much peoples attitudes toward this subject would change if attunement requirements were once again implemented, requiring a full clear before moving to new content.

    Anyhow, this could all be potentially fixed if we could either have the patch pushed back to mid or end of march OR if Blizz would go ahead and release the patch but simply gate the new raid for that same amount of time.
    Last edited by Solariis; 2013-02-12 at 11:34 PM.

  20. #480
    I don't really mind either way but unless we see a huge increase in the number of Sha kills in the next two weeks, this will be the least completed raid tier since Naxx 40.

    As it stands, there are less than 450 guilds that have cleared everything, that's 1.6%, and the next boss is at 870 (2.16%) that is tiny compared to the cataclysm tiers since there have been no real nerfs (a few fixes) this time. Maybe this is the new philosophy, but you can see that there will be a lot of whiners when a decent (top 1000) guild could expect to comfortably clear content with time to spare but that bar has now risen to 500 with less than one reset of breathing space.

    Also, for reference, we will ignore dragon soul for obvious reasons, but Tier 11 had a 4% clearance rate, with 2.8% if you include Sinestra. While tier 12 was as high as 11% though that is heavily due to the Ragnaros nerfs and the fact that was able to be outgeared. Still, this tier's rate will probably be less than Sinestra's with no special heroic only boss.

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