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  1. #1

    Wait hold on....what exactly changed about PvP gear vs PvE gear in PvP? (out of loop)

    Ive been coming across random things about people complaining about how pvp gear is dead in world pvp? I dont understand....did they completely remove dmg mitigation from pvp gear so now PvE gear is stronger with more stats? I dont get it....then how isnt pvp gear dead in arena...or is it? pls explain.

    I think what im hearing is from people saying theyre getting wrecked by PvErs in PvE gear on the timeless isle pvp...confused as fuck. Last time I played WoW pve gear was useless in pvp (besides warglaives/specifictrinkets)
    Last edited by Sussex; 2013-11-20 at 08:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Resilience is now a baseline stats.

    PvE gear has :

    Higher iLevel
    More primary stats (more on sta, agi, int and so on).
    Much more haste.

    It is not uncommon, that a good geared PvE player has 150.000 to 200.000 mor HP than a arena geared player.

  3. #3
    If you're talking about when they started using PvP Power... they gave everyone a high passive damage reduction percentage for damage received from another player, I think it was about 60%? And then the PvP Power stat just increases the damage/healing you deal to other players in a PvP environment.

  4. #4
    Epic! mrgummage's Avatar
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    PvP Resilience is now base 72% damage reduction (everyone get's it regardless of gear).

    PvP gear now has PvP Power, which increases the damage done to enemy players, thereby offsetting the effect of the base resilience. This means that in almost all cases, PvP gear (with PvP Power) is going to be better than PvE gear.

    In arena and battlegrounds, all PvE gear has it's item level capped at 501 also, so heroic raid gear is never better than current season items.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Phurox View Post
    Resilience is now a baseline stats.

    PvE gear has :

    Higher iLevel
    More primary stats (more on sta, agi, int and so on).
    Much more haste.

    It is not uncommon, that a good geared PvE player has 150.000 to 200.000 mor HP than a arena geared player.

    Wait....all that I understand....but doesn't PvP gear have any bonus dmg mitigation anymore? If so...strong wtf @ blizzard logic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mrgummage View Post
    PvP Resilience is now base 72% damage reduction (everyone get's it regardless of gear).

    PvP gear now has PvP Power, which increases the damage done to enemy players, thereby offsetting the effect of the base resilience. This means that in almost all cases, PvP gear (with PvP Power) is going to be better than PvE gear.

    In arena and battlegrounds, all PvE gear has it's item level capped at 501 also, so heroic raid gear is never better than current season items.


    Oh i see now....so is this PvP power not good enough of a stat to overcome the difference in ilvl at this point in the expansion, ie pvp power not scalin as good as other stats.....or am i way off base?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sussex View Post
    Wait....all that I understand....but doesn't PvP gear have any bonus dmg mitigation anymore? If so...strong wtf @ blizzard logic.
    Problem is, etc, spell casters have over 100% more haste than a PvP player. You can fast burst more than a pure pvp geared caster.

    PvP power is not really that strong of a stat. Even the high rated players does not gem towards PvP power, but instead use their main stats like agility, since they get alot more out of that.

    PvP power is much weaker than main stats.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Phurox View Post
    Problem is, etc, spell casters have over 100% more haste than a PvP player. You can fast burst more than a pure pvp geared caster.

    PvP power is not really that strong of a stat. Even the high rated players does not gem towards PvP power, but instead use their main stats like agility, since they get alot more out of that.

    PvP power is much weaker than main stats.
    So basically heroic raiders are running around with 570+ ILVL weapons vs people in pvp weapon using ilvl 520 or something? im assuming the PvP power cant keep up with that much of a ilvl difference?

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Srg56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sussex View Post
    Ive been coming across random things about people complaining about how pvp gear is dead in world pvp? I dont understand....did they completely remove dmg mitigation from pvp gear so now PvE gear is stronger with more stats? I dont get it....then how isnt pvp gear dead in arena...or is it? pls explain.

    I think what im hearing is from people saying theyre getting wrecked by PvErs in PvE gear on the timeless isle pvp...confused as fuck. Last time I played WoW pve gear was useless in pvp (besides warglaives/specifictrinkets)
    In short, devs made the choice of intentionally having reduced item level on PvP gear in order to stop it from being required for PvE progression. This gave them more flexibility when it comes to balancing the PvP scene in what is perceived as "PvP that counts" or "PvP that matters", which is BGs, RBGs and arenas, as well as keeping the numbers lower without having to increase resilience numbers even higher.

    What this meant is that outside of "sanctioned" and "way meant to be played" rated battlegrounds and arenas, a top geared pvp player had less stats than even LFR geared players, but had a bit of pvp power to help them even the battle. The problem comes when you, as a pvp geared player come across a normal or heroic geared pve player, whose pve stats trump even your pvp power enhanced pvp stats, not to mention has more hp than you.

    World pvp has always been derided as being a gankfest, useless, not desirable to engage in because it lacks "fairness" and such, and everyone including the devs thought that to be the general opinion of the player base, having seen it being repeatedly mentioned over the years, ever since TBC and it's flying mounts, so they made the decision to focus their balancing act and gearing philosophy for Mists on instanced pvp alone.

    Little did they know that allot of the "arena and RBG" types love to repeatedly gank and ruin the fun of pve players or just pick on lesser geared players in their spare time. You can now see how that balance of power is changed when pve players aren't forced into grinding for pvp gear in order to stand a chance against fully pvp geared pvp players and how that translates into hundreds of whining threads about pve gear being better in the world.
    Last edited by Srg56; 2013-11-20 at 08:50 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Srg56 View Post
    In short, devs made the choice of intentionally having reduced item level on PvP gear in order to stop it from being required for PvE progression. This gave them more flexibility when it comes to balancing the PvP scene in what is perceived as "PvP that counts" or "PvP that matters", which is BGs, RBGs and arenas, as well as keeping the numbers lower without having to increase resilience numbers even higher.

    What this meant is that outside of "sanctioned" and "way meant to be played" rated battlegrounds and arenas, a top geared pvp player had less stats than even LFR geared players, but had a bit of pvp power to help them even the battle. The problem comes when you, as a pvp geared player come across a normal or heroic geared pve player, whose pve stats trump even your pvp power enhanced pvp stats, not to mention has more hp than you.

    World pvp has always been derided as being a gankfest, useless, not desirable to engage in because it lacks "fairness" and such, and everyone including the devs thought that to be the general opinion of the player base, having seen it being repeatedly mentioned over the years, ever since TBC and it's flying mounts, so they made the decision to focus their balancing act and gearing philosophy for Mists on instanced pvp alone.

    Little did they know that allot of the "arena and RBG" types love to repeatedly gank and ruin the fun of pve players or just pick on lesser geared players in their spare time. You can now see how that balance of power is changed when pve players aren't forced into grinding for pvp gear in order to stand a chance against fully pvp geared pvp players in every single whine thread about pve gear being better in the world.

    But PvErs could always simply and easily get a full PvP gear set and be on par with PvPers....PvPers could not do the same thing...1 weekend of grinding bgs = full set....people who play for PvP cant just simply spend a weekend grinding heroic tier raids and get a full set of gear to compete.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sussex View Post
    But PvErs could always simply and easily get a full PvP gear set and be on par with PvPers....PvPers could not do the same thing...1 weekend of grinding bgs = full set....people who play for PvP cant just simply spend a weekend grinding heroic tier raids and get a full set of gear to compete.
    Why exactly do PvPers need a full set of heroic gear?
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  11. #11
    Dreadlord Srg56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sussex View Post
    But PvErs could always simply and easily get a full PvP gear set and be on par with PvPers....PvPers could not do the same thing...1 weekend of grinding bgs = full set....people who play for PvP cant just simply spend a weekend grinding heroic tier raids and get a full set of gear to compete.
    The devs have repeatedly stated that they do not want to force players into playing anything they don't want to participate in.

    This isn't about pve players getting pve gear to beat the crap out of pvp players, that's not the point of pve gear and that's a pvp player point of view.

    It's about pve players minding their own business killing dragon no. 992302, and getting attacked by Yoloswagqt and wrecking his face. Cut to Yoloswagqt whining on the forums that his e-peen isn't big enough anymore.
    Last edited by Srg56; 2013-11-20 at 08:56 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Srg56 View Post
    The devs have repeatedly stated that they do not want to force players into playing anything they don't want to participate in.

    This isn't about pve players getting pve gear to beat the crap out of pvp players, that's not the point of pve gear and that's a pvp player point of view. It's about pve players minding their own business killing dragon no. 992302, and getting attacked by Yoloswagqt and wrecking his face. Cut to Yoloswagqt whining on the forums that his e-peen isn't big enough anymore.

    i dont know why but im sensing hostility in your post. you sound like youre bitter about something.....and i dont know why because when i use to play WoW at my peak in the game i was doing both high end raiding and competing in arena and did also enjoy world pvp a lot (talking tbc in a top 50 pve guild while playing all in 3 brackets seriously and enjoying killing people on the isle that hosted sunwell)

    i should just say you might wanna take a little chill pill n relax on your hate of specific players....because ive been every type of player this game has to offer from casual chit kunt to hardcore raiding phaggot to world pvping douchebag ganking people over and over for no reason.


    i kinda feel bad for you if your the type of person who shoe boxes themselves 1 category.....and dismisses everyone else that doesnt fit your exact idea of fun

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sussex View Post
    So basically heroic raiders are running around with 570+ ILVL weapons vs people in pvp weapon using ilvl 520 or something? im assuming the PvP power cant keep up with that much of a ilvl difference?
    Blizzard sees BG and Arena gear like welfare epics.

    "Of course" should Blizzard main player base (PvE players) be able to totally crush PvP player- From some expansions back the PvE players cried about they could not do any PvP because they spent most of their times in raids and could not get arena gear. So Blizzard said "there there, my little darlings" and gave them crushing PvE gear.

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Useful's Avatar
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    in a short sentence: in a Timless Isle pvp encounter Heroic raider dominates Arena player. In instanced pvp area (arena or BG) PvP gear almost always is better. Why almost? because yesterday in a 2v2 match 570 heroic ret paladin did 100-0 on my hunter partner within a stun duration. I am saying all this, excluding skill issues, pvp balance issues, etc etc. Just pure numbers.

    The only short period of time, when players could take a stand vs each other, were they tier 3 geared or 14 rank geared, was the end of Vanilla. Everyone had around 4-5 k hp and did comparable damage. That doesn't mean I pray for returning of those times. The whole system was fucked up with the start of arena pvp in TBC. The game was balanced around 60 lvl and started to turn into madness with all that resilience versus pve damage shit.

    PS Coming from a perspective of long term pvp and pve player. just my opinion, no strings attached

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Useful View Post
    in a short sentence: in a Timless Isle pvp encounter Heroic raider dominates Arena player. In instanced pvp area (arena or BG) PvP gear almost always is better. Why almost? because yesterday in a 2v2 match 570 heroic ret paladin did 100-0 on my hunter partner within a stun duration. I am saying all this, excluding skill issues, pvp balance issues, etc etc. Just pure numbers.
    That would be a 501 ilvl heroic ret paladin in arena. I am willing to wager the same player in conquest gear would have accomplished the same feat.

    Only exception would be some pumped up pve trinket. And even then, I'd argue you have to be running a zerg comp for it to be beneficial, given how the procs on pve trinkets are tempered in that environment.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Useful View Post
    because yesterday in a 2v2 match 570 heroic ret paladin did 100-0 on my hunter partner within a stun duration. I am saying all this, excluding skill issues, pvp balance issues, etc etc. Just pure numbers.
    That 570 ilvl means nothing in arena. He will be actually worse off than a player who has casually been pvping and has half tyranical and half grievious gear at this point. PvE Ret hero has 501 ilvl and zero pvp power, casual pvp hero has 510 ilvl and roughly 40% pvp power. The pvp hero has a distinct advantage in damage output, health, armor, secondary stats etc. Then add in the pvp power and it is clearly superior.

    I am guessing you would have just gotten wrecked by a 496 player just as easily because in this game if you don't counter offensive CDs with either defensive CDs or kiting you die extremely fast.

  17. #17
    Stood in the Fire Useful's Avatar
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    i know about the ilvl downscale. still that guy was hitting like a truck. i checked his armory after the match - 570 gear. but u are right - that was bad play from our side.

  18. #18
    The Patient Krixooks's Avatar
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    I made a vid yesterday to demonstrate-
    http://youtu.be/FLTOxCs3IDk

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sussex View Post
    But PvErs could always simply and easily get a full PvP gear set and be on par with PvPers....PvPers could not do the same thing...1 weekend of grinding bgs = full set....people who play for PvP cant just simply spend a weekend grinding heroic tier raids and get a full set of gear to compete.
    Well, to be fair, 1 weekend of grinding BG's = full set of *last season's* gear. To compare that to heroic tier is a bit disingenuous. It's more like, farming TI random epics and JP from LFD's to buy the 489/496 5.0 & 5.1 epics.

    Full ARENA gear is a better comparison, and that won't happen with 1 weekend of grinding arena's/RBG's either.

    That being said, the iLvL difference between the best PvP gear and the best PvE gear is perhaps a bit too much for purposes of world PvP.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Srg56 View Post
    The devs have repeatedly stated that they do not want to force players into playing anything they don't want to participate in.
    And the part that I don't get is did the devs "force" these people to roll on a pvp server? No so why if they don't want to fight in the open world did they join a pvp server. You are basically consenting to getting killed when you roll on one of these servers so why cry foul now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    Well, to be fair, 1 weekend of grinding BG's = full set of *last season's* gear. To compare that to heroic tier is a bit disingenuous. It's more like, farming TI random epics and JP from LFD's to buy the 489/496 5.0 & 5.1 epics.

    Full ARENA gear is a better comparison, and that won't happen with 1 weekend of grinding arena's/RBG's either.

    That being said, the iLvL difference between the best PvP gear and the best PvE gear is perhaps a bit too much for purposes of world PvP.
    However I would still say that the last season's pvp gear should still edge heroic pve gear in a pvp setting. Not by much but it should still be the better option. It's what the gear was designed for. You wouldn't use a hammer to tighten a screw would you? Pve gear should be the best for killing anything other than another player. That shouldn't mean the pve player has zero chance but the pvp gear should slightly trump the pve gear and the rest is player skill.

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