1. #1
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Neutral Factions and Race/Faction Thematics

    Alright, so the Argent Crusade, Cenarion Circle, Earthen Ring and such are really cool, but at the same time, they come off as kind of lecturing the Alliance when it defends itself, and really limpwristed when dealing with the Horde. Moreover, they tend to, in my opinion, force Horde players into what would otherwise be Alliance plotline and settlements, and rob the Horde of the ability to develop its own things, leading to a kind of... blandness with the thematics they're tied to.


    This could also be seen in Dalaran prior to Jaina kicking out the sunreavers, there was a noticeable aesthetic difference between the Filthy Animal inn and the rest of Dalaran.


    Would you prefer that in the future, neutral factions work more in the vein of two pre-existing sub-factions for the Horde and Alliance joining up, rather than everyone being lumped into a single largely Alliance themed faction? Or do you prefer the existing methodology?
    Twas brillig

  2. #2
    Honestly, to hell with neutral factions. It ruins lore when already existing, specifically aligned factions are constantly forced to open up to both the Horde and Alliance just to create balance. It's okay to have a few factions that were CREATED as neutral ingame thay offer quest to both ally/horde, not when an existing faction is forced to go neutral.

    Silver Cov/Sunreavers and Reliquary/Explorers League are the way factions should be; Offer very similar quests and rewards, but still be aligned to only one side. We shouldnt have things lik Earthen Ring letting im Ally, or Argent Crusade letting in horde. Just as easy to make a similar version availabe to both sides, than dilute lore by making players work for a faction that was once their enemy.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Honestly, to hell with neutral factions. It ruins lore when already existing, specifically aligned factions are constantly forced to open up to both the Horde and Alliance just to create balance. It's okay to have a few factions that were CREATED as neutral ingame thay offer quest to both ally/horde, not when an existing faction is forced to go neutral.

    Silver Cov/Sunreavers and Reliquary/Explorers League are the way factions should be; Offer very similar quests and rewards, but still be aligned to only one side. We shouldnt have things lik Earthen Ring letting im Ally, or Argent Crusade letting in horde. Just as easy to make a similar version availabe to both sides, than dilute lore by making players work for a faction that was once their enemy.
    You're missing their goals, though. What's the point in having two seperate fronts against the misuse of the elements? What's the point in having two separate efforts against the scourge? In things like that, where the enemy is a threat to both sides, I don't see a point in them being separate, because it makes sense to be united.

    I agree that the Explorer's League and the Reliquary should be seperate, but that's because they're working for their respective faction, whereas the Argent Crusade is working to defeat the scourge without prejudice.

  4. #4
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Consider a two-pronged Wrath: Pardoned Tirion returning to the Knights of the Silver Hand to deliver the Alliance crusaders' justice upon the Lich King, with Redeemed Liadrin bringing down Silvermoon's vengeance via the Blood Knights. Instead, Argent Crusade for everyone. I didn't really like that; it was thematically slanted, the Horde felt out of place, Alliance had one of their central themes thrown to neutrality, and all of that despite the Horde having its own equivalent established just the previous expansion.

    Sometimes it makes enough sense (think Ebon Blade), but other times it's a blatant cop out to save time. A shame.

    So, no... I'd vastly prefer both factions getting their own things. Or, you know, simply utilizing the things they already have.

  5. #5
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Consider a two-pronged Wrath: Pardoned Tirion returning to the Knights of the Silver Hand to deliver the Alliance crusaders' justice upon the Lich King, with Redeemed Liadrin bringing down Silvermoon's vengeance via the Blood Knights. Instead, Argent Crusade for everyone. I didn't really like that; it was thematically slanted, the Horde felt out of place, Alliance had one of their central themes thrown to neutrality, and all of that despite the Horde having its own equivalent established just the previous expansion.

    Sometimes it makes enough sense (think Ebon Blade), but other times it's a blatant cop out to save time. A shame.

    So, no... I'd vastly prefer both factions getting their own things. Or, you know, simply utilizing the things they already have.
    I think the Argent Crusade deal was that someone thought it'd be a good idea to give Darion the Ashbringer. Which then brought up all the talk about how to purify it. Which then led to the Light of Dawn quest, in which Tirion got the Ashbringer. Oh but wait, the Ashbringer is the only weapon that can match Frostmourne, which would make Tirion almost immediately the hero of Wrath.

    Well the Horde would QQ if the Alliance got the hero all to themselves, so better make him neutral.

    And the rest is history.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  6. #6
    Mechagnome
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    The Earthen Ring and Cenarion Circle were a good chance to be counterpart factions, back when the Horde had all the Shamans and the Night Elves all the Druids. That's the thing--counterparts don't have to be mirrors. We could have also had the Argent Dawn (or an Alliance-backed Scarlet Crusade) against the Forsaken and their Death Knights.

    Instead...
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Khaza-R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Consider a two-pronged Wrath: Pardoned Tirion returning to the Knights of the Silver Hand to deliver the Alliance crusaders' justice upon the Lich King, with Redeemed Liadrin bringing down Silvermoon's vengeance via the Blood Knights. Instead, Argent Crusade for everyone. I didn't really like that; it was thematically slanted, the Horde felt out of place, Alliance had one of their central themes thrown to neutrality, and all of that despite the Horde having its own equivalent established just the previous expansion.

    Sometimes it makes enough sense (think Ebon Blade), but other times it's a blatant cop out to save time. A shame.

    So, no... I'd vastly prefer both factions getting their own things. Or, you know, simply utilizing the things they already have.
    I could not agree more with this. Nothing feels more awkward or out of place than seeing Night Elves and Orcs make up the Argent Dawn's ranks in Hearthglen in the Eastern Kingdoms. It just feels too purposely, "diversity friends", Captain Planet-ish for me.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Skytotem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    The Earthen Ring and Cenarion Circle were a good chance to be counterpart factions, back when the Horde had all the Shamans and the Night Elves all the Druids. That's the thing--counterparts don't have to be mirrors. We could have also had the Argent Dawn (or an Alliance-backed Scarlet Crusade) against the Forsaken and their Death Knights.

    Instead...
    Or they could have Alliance shaman added to the Alliance druids in Cenarion circle and Horde druids added to the Horde shaman in earthen ring.

    Could've had Redeemed deathknights like Darion in the Ebon Blade for the Alliance, with Tirion heading up the Argent crusade with their paladins...

    And Hordeside we could've forced Teron Gorefiend or another WC2 deathknight (those guys are seriously sturdy and can be brought back who knows how many times) under Sylvanas for Horde DK's, and Liadrin and Bloodknights Hordeside for paladins.

    Do it Might of Kalimdor style.


    The Guys that became 7th Legion and Saurfang, along with some Horde fellows all worked together to fight the Silithid and Qiraji but they were all still part of their own faction.
    Twas brillig

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