1. #1

    Advice Needed Frost Mage

    Hello all,

    I have a quick question regarding my frost mage - currently im Ilevel 485 and duel speccing with arcane haste.
    Currently i'm not really pleased with my own dps and I wanna improve it to see where I can get to help my raidteam out more.
    One of the problems I'm encountering though is the reforging part, for frost it says Int > Hit > Haste > Crit (28%) > Mastery > More Crit (Source: Kuni's Guide)
    Now my two questions are:
    1. Either when I put my mage into askmrrobot it still holds back on haste and goes for crit, while I see some other top mage on my server (frost specced) ignore crit and go all the way into haste. Why is it that askmrrobot and reforgelite advice me to reforge crit instead of haste?
    2. Reforgelite stat weights keep pushing me into crit as well instead of haste and for some reason Adjusting them ain't working when I scale my haste higher then crit/mastery. Did more mages saw this issue and might have a way around it?

    I hope I can get some advice on this, I'm not a pure theorycrafter but I always try to search for more information in guide/topics etc. However I'm stuck on this issue with confuses me a lot.

    Included Askmrrobot: askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/outland/spartex
    Last edited by Spartex; 2013-02-16 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Extra info

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Dutchmagoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,144
    Reforgelite stat weights are extremely general, and are in no way compared to YOUR character. They only put in the standard stat weights to have some formats in, you should always put in your own stat weights in reforgelite. As a reply to your first question, askmrrobot is not very reliable. Try simcrafting your char for stat weights, but it's most likely haste is better than crit.
    Got questions about Fire mages or want your logs analyzed? Feel free to PM me.

    Dutchmagoz - 14/14HC world 90 - 3 days/week.

    Recruiting for Mythic raiding! Click or add Dutchiee#2877

  3. #3
    Spartex, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. I checked out your character and Mr. Robot is actually doing what you want. I think that reforgelite might also be doing what you want. There's a catch you might not be aware of:

    When reforging, you can only reforge to a secondary stat that is NOT already on your gear. So Mr. Robot reforged a lot of pieces that already have haste on them, to crit. He did that because crit is your next best stat behind haste. You might also notice that when he reforges to crit, he's taking it out of Mastery or Hit, leaving Haste in tact.

    As for Dutchmagoz, I don't know why you claim it isn't reliable. It is If you think there is something wrong, let me know, just in case there is a bug (in which case, we usually fix them in a day).
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Spartex, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. I checked out your character and Mr. Robot is actually doing what you want. I think that reforgelite might also be doing what you want. There's a catch you might not be aware of:

    When reforging, you can only reforge to a secondary stat that is NOT already on your gear. So Mr. Robot reforged a lot of pieces that already have haste on them, to crit. He did that because crit is your next best stat behind haste. You might also notice that when he reforges to crit, he's taking it out of Mastery or Hit, leaving Haste in tact.

    As for Dutchmagoz, I don't know why you claim it isn't reliable. It is If you think there is something wrong, let me know, just in case there is a bug (in which case, we usually fix them in a day).
    Hi Zooper, When I inspected my reforges I recognized that indeed. The only point is that I should go Haste above Crit (If I'm not mistaken) and that when I change my spec to arcane I noticed that I can get higher haste. When I switch the stat weight of mastery and haste as arcane mage in askmrrobot I see that I can get like 7000 Haste from gear.

    So my question is; why isn't askmrrobot assuming that instead of all that crit rating? If Haste indeed would be better then I'm the optimization can be better or is it something I'm not seeing right?

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Dutchmagoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,144
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Spartex, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot. I checked out your character and Mr. Robot is actually doing what you want. I think that reforgelite might also be doing what you want. There's a catch you might not be aware of:

    When reforging, you can only reforge to a secondary stat that is NOT already on your gear. So Mr. Robot reforged a lot of pieces that already have haste on them, to crit. He did that because crit is your next best stat behind haste. You might also notice that when he reforges to crit, he's taking it out of Mastery or Hit, leaving Haste in tact.

    As for Dutchmagoz, I don't know why you claim it isn't reliable. It is If you think there is something wrong, let me know, just in case there is a bug (in which case, we usually fix them in a day).
    Whenever I used it, it always gave me unoptimal to say the least results, or it didn't keep in mind other changes or the grand scheme of things. I haven't used it in a while though, so most of those issues are possibly fixed or improved now, but whenever I see someone post that mrrobot isn't giving them the expected results, that's my usual reply :P.
    Got questions about Fire mages or want your logs analyzed? Feel free to PM me.

    Dutchmagoz - 14/14HC world 90 - 3 days/week.

    Recruiting for Mythic raiding! Click or add Dutchiee#2877

  6. #6
    Spartex, I see what you're asking now. So you're looking at stats as a priority, instead of being weighted. You're thinking, "I want as much Haste as possible, because that's a good stat." Mr. Robot is doing math all based on the stat weights.

    So the reason you're getting what you want with the arcane stat weights, is that Arcane has Haste high enough, relative to Int, that it's better to gem for Haste. But as Frost, it's better to gem for Int over Haste. When you swap the stat weights, you're not sacrificing Crit for Haste, you're sacrificing Int for Haste.

    Here are 2 profiles to compare:
    1 - Int > Haste > Crit gem: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/e...3-c42aaff1c621
    2 - Haste > Int > Crit gems: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/5...6-371de3b357a8

    Dutchmagoz, thanks for the reply. I'd love it if you gave Mr. Robot another try It makes Mr. Robot sad that you say he's unreliable without having checked him out after all of his improvements. 90% of the time, people don't understand what Mr. Robot is doing (like in this case), even though he's doing the right thing. 10% of the time, something needs improvement. So he hopes with those odds, maybe you can try him out and be friends again?
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Spartex, I see what you're asking now. So you're looking at stats as a priority, instead of being weighted. You're thinking, "I want as much Haste as possible, because that's a good stat." Mr. Robot is doing math all based on the stat weights.

    So the reason you're getting what you want with the arcane stat weights, is that Arcane has Haste high enough, relative to Int, that it's better to gem for Haste. But as Frost, it's better to gem for Int over Haste. When you swap the stat weights, you're not sacrificing Crit for Haste, you're sacrificing Int for Haste.

    Here are 2 profiles to compare:

    Dutchmagoz, thanks for the reply. I'd love it if you gave Mr. Robot another try It makes Mr. Robot sad that you say he's unreliable without having checked him out after all of his improvements. 90% of the time, people don't understand what Mr. Robot is doing (like in this case), even though he's doing the right thing. 10% of the time, something needs improvement. So he hopes with those odds, maybe you can try him out and be friends again?
    Hey Zooper, Thanks for the information and don't get me wrong I'm not critizing Mr. Robot - I love it actually and use it pretty often. I just got confused - I'm no theorycrafter (that's exacly why I'm using these optional tools) and hate math and calculations .

    I have 1 final question - If compared to the other top mage I was talking about:
    askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/eu/khadgar/gvstoned

    Is askmrrobot giving me the same directions to go for as the top mage? If so - I'll won't correct anything and just stay with my current advice from askmrrobot and reforgelite.

  8. #8
    AMR is actually very reliable if you configured it well.

    Anyone claiming AMR and/or Reforgelite isnt, did put a single minute into configuring it or thinking about how it works.

    You can send my bests to the AMR team Zooper, great job .
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

  9. #9
    Eihwaz, Mr. Robot says "Hi!" and he's put your profile on his favorites list. Everyone on his favorites list gets free shoe shines during the optimization process.
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Serendia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    615
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Eihwaz, Mr. Robot says "Hi!" and he's put your profile on his favorites list. Everyone on his favorites list gets free shoe shines during the optimization process.
    Can I have free shoe shines aswell ? Tried addons and different websites since transmogging was part of the game. I came to the conclusion to use AMR. I compared AMR to other sites and reforged/gemmed as they suggested and did less dmg in the end. I don't know it just feels right with robot. I recently suggested AMR to friend of mine who was sceptical because he doesn't trust sites /addons like that. Now he finally did what AMR suggested him to change and he's glad he did (without knowing some certain figure would be better than another*g*) because he's now doing more dmg on his main.

  11. #11
    Mountandpetlover, Mr. Robot said he can shine your shoes too. But if you chance your name to robotandpetlover he'll add sparkle dust to your helm.
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
    Mr. Robot is also on Twitter

  12. #12
    Hey Zooper, thanks for all the info you gave me - I understand what it's doing now.

    Follows to a more class specifick question I have - Is it worth to sacrifice intellect at the cost of haste for a frost mage like the other mage is doing I linked in my previous post? 5.1 K haste seems really low from gear compared to the 9k GVstoned mage has as a frost mage. Or is that a gear depended difference that he has mainly more haste on his gear as secondary stat?
    Last edited by Spartex; 2013-02-17 at 12:31 AM.

  13. #13
    lol Mr.robot dont like my inputs for enhan shammy. he keeps messing up poor guy I just can't teach him anything

  14. #14
    Just go haste over crit for your frost mage. It always takes priority.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Dutchmagoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,144
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    AMR is actually very reliable if you configured it well.

    Anyone claiming AMR and/or Reforgelite isnt, did put a single minute into configuring it or thinking about how it works.

    You can send my bests to the AMR team Zooper, great job .
    In my eyes, askmrrobot is trying to do what rawr does, but without multiple layers. Like, in my case, I'm better off getting to the haste cap for NT, and then stack mastery afterwards, however, AMR just stacks mastery regardless for the haste value i'm at, even if I'm only like 300 ratings off another haste cap. I'm quite sure you can add caps and stuff it should aim for, however, how does it then make it any different from the reforgelite addon? You add values, caps, etc, and it does the reforges for you, which is basically what askmrrobot does as well. However, rawr for example, checks if maybe after a certain point, x stat beats y stat, and keeps this in mind, so it's basically changing stat weights during optimisation.

    I'm not trying to talk AMR down, it's a great tool to get the wanted results for certain stat weights, it's just not dynamic, which doesn't really make it any different to me from for example reforgelite.

    Maybe I'm just expecting too much from optimisation tools. I personally stick with simcraft and reforgelite.
    Got questions about Fire mages or want your logs analyzed? Feel free to PM me.

    Dutchmagoz - 14/14HC world 90 - 3 days/week.

    Recruiting for Mythic raiding! Click or add Dutchiee#2877

  16. #16
    Yes, you can actually add soft cap so it takes it into account. Thats part of "configuring it" before saying AMR doesn't work.

    AMR doesnt only tell you how you should reforge/gem, it also tells you if the item "X" is better than "Y" and by how much, reforgelite doesnt do that, right ?

    It can also tell you how you should spend you valor points by calculating the biggest upgrade you can buy, where are located your upgrades.. etc.

    Really, you shouldn't compare AMR with reforgelite when you only tested 10% of its possibilities 6 months ago..
    Made by mountandpetlover, big thanks !

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •