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  1. #1

    [Mage] 5.2 what are you gonna do about it?

    Because of the extreme cluster that is mage 5.2, I haven't even attempted to keep up with all the BS changes that keep incoming.

    Since the patch is scheduled to Debut in a few weeks, lets use this thread to attempt to figure out what we are going to do.

    Please post what you plan on doing for spec and rotation, and let the community pick it apart, so that hopefully we can start to learn what we need to do about the hand we are about to be dealt.

    I would contribute, but honestly I have no idea what the hell to do at this point. Please let us know what you are planning on doing going into 5.2.
    Last edited by cockaroo; 2013-02-12 at 06:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Unless arcane proves to still do far too strong dps, prolly roll fire, gem and reforge crit and not look back until some numbers are around to have a decent comparison..

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    Unless arcane proves to still do far too strong dps, prolly roll fire, gem and reforge crit and not look back until some numbers are around to have a decent comparison..
    This is actually what I was planning on. I have a feeling they will give up, make a quick fix to fire, and let us go about our merry way. Then again, I am an optimist.

    I raid competitively and hold many top 50 ranks for heroic encounters currently, and I have no idea what I'm going to do in 5.2. I really don't want to look like a fool in the first raid, but then again, I'm not so much of a theory crafter that I care to make sense of the current mess that is mages. I guess I will reap what I sow, but hopefully this thread can give me some ideas to curb my lack of skill in the theory crafting department.

  4. #4
    this thread is new and exciting!!

    everything is fine except invocation atm

    they are tweaking the numbers for now(nerf to arcane. well bit of both for qol sake) they could buff frostbolt/fireball a bit again imo >_>

    but at the moment i will stay arcane, been on ptr last night (before the nerf) so will be excited to play around with new and improved less mana on 4stack AB
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    this thread is new and exciting!!

    everything is fine except invocation atm

    they are tweaking the numbers for now(nerf to arcane. well bit of both for qol sake) they could buff frostbolt/fireball a bit again imo >_>

    but at the moment i will stay arcane, been on ptr last night (before the nerf) so will be excited to play around with new and improved less mana on 4stack AB
    Can you detail exactly how you are doing your rotation? This is the whole point of the thread, so others can pick apart your play style and make suggestions or ask questions to help improve the community's play. Thanks!

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    GC just announce another change to arcane charge and they still haven't began tweaking damage.
    All this change make stat scaling vary.
    The answers is 42
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  7. #7
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    GC just announce another change to arcane charge and they still haven't began tweaking damage.
    All this change make stat scaling vary.
    "OKAY GUYS, LET'S DROP INVO TO 0% MP5 AND NOT TELL PEOPLE ABOUT IT!"

    "We're reverting the 100% MP5 reduction back to 50%, as well as making Invo work COMPLETELY different for Arcane by making Charges consumed by Evocation for more mana. In addition, before you get to test that, we're also nerfing Charges to 35%/100% in Damage bonus/Mana cost, respectively"

    I feel like when a talent does something so radically different for one specc over the other two (especially for a PURE DPS class), the design philosophy is an absolute failure.


    OT: There is no telling what our end result will be for Arcane. Both Frost and Fire are nearly 100% identical.

    - Keep up Mage Bomb (your choice)
    - Use your procc effects (Pyroblast/Ice Lance & Frostfire Bolt)
    - Use your short cooldown (Combustion/Frozen Orb)
    - Spam your main nuke (Fireball/Frostbolt)
    - Keep up Invocation

    Seriously, the speccs are the exact same thing, with the small exception of Frost getting an extra procc and having more controlled proccs (e.g., freezing adds, Frozen Orb, and if you use Frost Bomb, Brain Freeze), and Fire having unpredictable proccs and needing to use Inferno Blast.

    There really is no telling what Arcane will end up when they change it every other day.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 03:53 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    everything is fine except invocation atm
    Denial sounds nice; I wish I could try it.

    RoP is a huge issue as it's nearly worthless to pick up. Invo is VASTLY superior to it (for Fire/Frost), and at this point, IW may even be worth it for Arcane if you can't stand Rune (which many of you, including myself, can't). You lose 10% passive MP5 and 9% damage, but you AREN'T restricted to a small circle, you don't ever have to recast it, and if you can sacrifice a bit of MP5, you can use IW's active to burst some huge damage out (assuming there's an AoE effect in place).

    Arcane is still unpredictable as hell, Frost is still crap. NOTHING is "fine" really.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-02-12 at 08:54 AM.

  8. #8
    frost and fire are crap, so the only option was arcane, but with the today's nerf I'm gonna have to check that again

  9. #9
    I'd really like to see how the math turns out with these changes because its starting to feel like paint being thrown at a wall

  10. #10
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey One View Post
    I'd really like to see how the math turns out with these changes because its starting to feel like paint being thrown at a wall
    When one of your talents has to be changed so it's drastically different for one specc than the other two (ESPECIALLY for a Pure DPS class), you know it's fucked up and broken design-wise.






    (^ would be Invocation, for people curious, as it reacts differently only for Arcane)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    snip
    invo damage being changed= less attraction to rop thats whats wrong with invo nothing wrong with rop just saying >_>

    also denial??? uhhhh what???

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 01:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    GC just announce another change to arcane charge and they still haven't began tweaking damage.
    All this change make stat scaling vary.
    ikr lol good thing i have 2stack worth of mastery/haste gem ready :P

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 01:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by cockaroo View Post
    Can you detail exactly how you are doing your rotation? This is the whole point of the thread, so others can pick apart your play style and make suggestions or ask questions to help improve the community's play. Thanks!
    hmm?? this is before they changed the damage/mana cost down to 35%/150%

    its just same old same old rotation AB until you get 4stacks use AM if you have any proc use AB until 80% mana then reset with Abarr. this 4stack mechanic seems more dynamic than the 6stack since we are going to be using ABarr more often (this is ROp mastery build btw sorry to mention)

    will have some dummy testing with the new changes hopefully the 4stack AB is more forgiving than before so we can manage our mana to maximize our dps rather than scorch weaving/invocation play style zzzzz
    Last edited by Soulstrike; 2013-02-12 at 12:18 PM.
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  12. #12
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    invo damage being changed= less attraction to rop thats whats wrong with invo nothing wrong with rop just saying >_> also denial??? uhhhh what???
    If you think "everything is fine besides Invo", then you're definitely in denial, or just completely oblivious.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    If you think "everything is fine besides Invo", then you're definitely in denial, or just completely oblivious.
    uhhh i did mention number tweaking??? what more is there to "fix" besides invocation?? please do tell
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  14. #14
    High Overlord Mirean's Avatar
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    OT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    OT: There is no telling what our end result will be for Arcane. Both Frost and Fire are nearly 100% identical.

    - Keep up Mage Bomb (your choice)
    - Use your procc effects (Pyroblast/Ice Lance & Frostfire Bolt)
    - Use your short cooldown (Combustion/Frozen Orb)
    - Spam your main nuke (Fireball/Frostbolt)
    - Keep up Invocation

    Seriously, the speccs are the exact same thing, with the small exception of Frost getting an extra procc and having more controlled proccs (e.g., freezing adds, Frozen Orb, and if you use Frost Bomb, Brain Freeze), and Fire having unpredictable proccs and needing to use Inferno Blast.
    Welcome to world of rogues :-) We have the exact same thing, but with all 3 specs, and blizz isn't going to do anything with it in near future.
    /OT

    I'm personally (on my mage) going to stay fire, I like the rotation, the crits and huge combustions. And if there are 2 more targets? Awww yeeaa Will probably go with rune of power, although I will probably prefer invocation on some heavy-movement fights. I guess that blizz intentions are to balance these 3 talents about: low-movement fights (rune of power), heavy-movement fights (invocation) and high-incoming-damage fights (shield) and I *mostly* agree with this.

    (mage is not my main, but I play it a little bit)

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    uhhh i did mention number tweaking??? what more is there to "fix" besides invocation?? please do tell
    Rune of Power, Invocation as it is completely demolishes it.

    Personally I plan to declare to my guild Arcane is no longer the must have spec, wave all these changes at them to prove it and re-spec and re-gem and reforge for Fire and pray Arcane doesn't end up as top dog again.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    @Dragon (and some other) on class rotation.
    This rotation is the basic standard for near every class. Some are more complex than other.
    Before, it was a rotational game-play. Now, it's a priority game-play.
    Arcane spec is one of the spec that differ the most from the standard.
    Fire spec is one of the spec the differ the less.
    Frost spec is in the middle with a debuff and a pet to manage.

    There's 2 standard : priority and resource management. They build all class around this with more or less difference, etc.
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  17. #17
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    uhhh i did mention number tweaking??? what more is there to "fix" besides invocation?? please do tell
    Arcane, Frost, RoP, IW? Are these things really as fine as you think?

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 10:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    @Dragon (and some other) on class rotation.
    This rotation is the basic standard for near every class. Some are more complex than other.
    Before, it was a rotational game-play. Now, it's a priority game-play.
    Arcane spec is one of the spec that differ the most from the standard.
    Fire spec is one of the spec the differ the less.
    Frost spec is in the middle with a debuff and a pet to manage.

    There's 2 standard : priority and resource management. They build all class around this with more or less difference, etc.
    Affliction Lock: Keep up 3 DoTs, Keep up Haunt if you can (kinda a procc?), MG (DS for Execute) otherwise.
    Shadow Priest: Keep up 2 DoTs, Mind Blast on cooldown (way shorter than, say, Comb or Frozen Orb), DP at 3 Orbs, Mind Spike when it proccs, Mind Flay otherwise. SW at execute range.
    Elemental Shaman: Keep up FS, LvB on cooldown/proccs, ES at high stacks of Lightning Shield, Elemental Blast on CD, Lightning Bolt otherwise.
    Protection Paladin: SPAM. EVERYTHING. Put higher priority on both Judgement and CS or HoR over non-HoPo generating moves (excluding SoR).

    I don't quite see how these are "standard" when compared to Mage. They all seem vastly different to me. Then it comes to Fire and Frost and it seems so stale.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    You can reduce it to :

    • keep dot/debuff up
    • cast proc
    • use CD on cooldown
    • use your "by default spell"

    Everything is just a variation around this.
    Some don't have dot, or plenty. Other have less cooldown or more proc to watch. Default spell can be cast a lot or not so much.
    It's just the model that blizzard use actually.

    Ok, it's more for caster than melee. But if you see White strike as a "default spell", the rest is more a "when it's up".
    The answers is 42
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  19. #19
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    You can reduce it to :

    • keep dot/debuff up
    • cast proc
    • use CD on cooldown
    • use your "by default spell"

    Everything is just a variation around this.
    And designed much better than Fire/Frost is, apparently :P

  20. #20
    I just got on the PTR today to see how much of a change Arcane is. I feel retarded. Actually, it feels more like the ICC rotation, if anything.

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