Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Posts
    13,823
    Yeah, I wouldn't advise using SoR over SoI anyway. Even ignoring the threat, the healing + Sacred Shield improvement outweigh what little threat SoR provides.

  2. #42
    Shhhhhhhh, guys blizzard might be listening. SoI+BH is a good thing, anything else is WoL Hogging, but stop talking about it I fear the nerfbat

  3. #43
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Posts
    13,823
    Quote Originally Posted by -ex- View Post
    Shhhhhhhh, guys blizzard might be listening. SoI+BH is a good thing, anything else is WoL Hogging, but stop talking about it I fear the nerfbat
    Nah, they already nerfed the healing once. Blizzard wants Prot using Insight, and Prot's only one that really uses Battle Healer so it's obviously intended for Prot; they aren't going to nerf them into oblivion like they did Truth.

  4. #44
    They nerfed SoT because they wanted us to use SoI. It is intended.
    Also they buffed the range of BH, so obviously it was to weak in their mind.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by -ex- View Post
    Shhhhhhhh, guys blizzard might be listening. SoI+BH is a good thing, anything else is WoL Hogging, but stop talking about it I fear the nerfbat
    Don't worry, a Brewmaster's Black Ox Statue can match or exceed the effective healing (but in absorb form, to boot) of our Battle Healer glyph, and it doesn't even cost them a glyph slot. Only downside is that it's essentially a "totem" and must be re-placed (on a 30-second cooldown) in fights that take place over a large area (not a common problem, but Zor'lok from last tier comes to mind).

    So it's a niche we share with monks, and if ours is overpowered, theirs probably is more so.

  6. #46
    Well, we also got Lights Hammer/HPrims if we are talking raid healing. LH if anything is OP for bosses that involves stacking to heal AoEs.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeth View Post
    Don't worry, a Brewmaster's Black Ox Statue can match or exceed the effective healing (but in absorb form, to boot) of our Battle Healer glyph, and it doesn't even cost them a glyph slot.
    Not sure if it still applies, but there was a bug where Ox Statue was only applying the bubble to one person repeatedly instead of multiple people. Like it was reading the lowest HP person, even if everyone was full and only putting bubble on them. It might have gotten fixed, but who knows.



  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    So you did 1413847 healing threat in 24% of the fight.
    First of all, 1,413,847 healing threat was done by my co-tank whom during the encounter used 100% SoI, as I said previously in my post.

    As for the new mobs that dropped down, I usually use Judgement, AS or even taunt. I feel they get the job done compare to the weak heal threat SoI provide.

    As to why I need more threat on mobs already on me. Well, as you know this fight DPS have priorities, they don't AOE like we do, they single target. We have to hold threat and maintain it, that why I find the extra threat provided by SoR is quite useful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    So if there are more than 2-3 mobs, SoI will grant more threat.
    Could you explain how you arrive at that conclusion? Because I already showed on that fight SoI only provide 1/3 of the threat SoR does.


    At end of the day, I don't need SoI's heal threat to pickup new adds, and SoR's threat is not irrelevant, so I stand by my statement that SoR is useful for Horridon's adds. I like been flexible and use every tool in my arsenal to get the job done.
    Last edited by flyflame; 2013-03-27 at 11:24 PM.

  9. #49
    Still is completely irrelevant as SoR only deals threat do mobs that are in your melee range, which you should have aggro on either way. SoI helps you pick up new mobs that jumps down far away, SoR doesnt.

    That is not being flexible or anything. That is being completely stubborn and blind to your class mechanics. Every other paladin tank is doing completely fine with SoI and having no issues picking up their adds. Absolutely no reason to gimp your self healing for some threat and damage you do not need.

    Its like I would say "I prefer to use Eternal Flame over Sacred Shield on Horridon for the increased threat it gives. Help me pick up adds."

    No... just... no...
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-28 at 12:25 AM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Still is completely irrelevant as SoR only deals threat do mobs that are in your melee range, which you should have aggro on either way. SoI helps you pick up new mobs that jumps down far away, SoR doesnt.

    That is not being flexible or anything. That is being completely stubborn and blind to your class mechanics. Every other paladin tank is doing completely fine with SoI and having no issues picking up their adds. Absolutely no reason to gimp your self healing for some threat and damage you do not need.

    Its like I would say "I prefer to use Eternal Flame over Sacred Shield on Horridon for the increased threat it gives. Help me pick up adds."

    No... just... no...
    Obviously I'm the stubborn and blind one, because you represent every other tankadins out there. I'm sorry that I must have missed a class ability that just glue melee range adds to you, whether the DPS is single targeting them or AOE them. Certainly you don't use judgement/AS/taunt at all, new adds just come to you with heal threat.

    Did I also mention while tanking adds your vengeance is low? That probably means dmg intake is low, maaaaaybe so survivability is no issue. But then again, I'm gimping myself for the 50%+ overheal on that low dmg phase.

    I see my error of presenting mere alternatives to your wisdom. Obviously anything that contrary to your opinion is incorrect and wrong.

    I'm done with this thread.

  11. #51
    Don't forget that you heal for 30% of each attack (melee, CS, ShoR) with SoI and there are some fights where that damage is not negligible.
    Intel i5 2500K (4.5 GHz) | Asus Z77 Sabertooth | 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz | Gigabyte Windforcex3 HD 7950 | Crucial M4 128GB | Crucial M550 256GB | Asus Xonar DGX | Samson SR 850 | Zalman ZM-Mic1 | Western Digital Caviar Black 2000GB | Noctua NH-U12P SE2 | Fractal Design Arc Midi | Corsair HX650

    Tanking with the Blessing of Kings - The TankSpot Guide to the Protection Paladin - Updated for Patch 5.4!

  12. #52
    i use seal of truth on the start of dark animus if i use SoI then i tend to pull threat from people across the room and on primordius i switch to SoR when not tanking for more procs of the debuff (switching to SoR doubles my procs which was a few million more damage done)

  13. #53
    soi + bh is all pallies ever need, you guys are crazy

  14. #54
    If you are thinking 'hey i might not need SoI on this fight' then you're doing content that is too easy for you, or you're getting carried by your healers, period.

    SoI and Battle Healer are a part of the protection spec around which its mitigation is balanced. If you don't have SoI on, you are playing your class wrong.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-31 at 05:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaitee View Post
    i use seal of truth on the start of dark animus if i use SoI then i tend to pull threat from people across the room and on primordius i switch to SoR when not tanking for more procs of the debuff (switching to SoR doubles my procs which was a few million more damage done)
    overhealing doesnt cause threat. im not even sure I believe its possible for BH to be causing your threat problems. You probably just have people not attacking their target right away, which is their fault not your seal's

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    If you are thinking 'hey i might not need SoI on this fight' then you're doing content that is too easy for you, or you're getting carried by your healers, period.

    SoI and Battle Healer are a part of the protection spec around which its mitigation is balanced. If you don't have SoI on, you are playing your class wrong.

    overhealing doesnt cause threat. im not even sure I believe its possible for BH to be causing your threat problems. You probably just have people not attacking their target right away, which is their fault not your seal's
    There are some fights, specifically last tier where there were alternatives to SoI. This tier the main alternative is primordius, other than chasing WoL ranks.

    Also, yes on animus it can be an issue. I opted into glyphing out of Battle healer and keeping SoI on, as BH is extremely weak on animus.

    A tank with battle healer makes more healing aggro than a healer and on Animus can easily outaggro a healers add.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    There are some fights, specifically last tier where there were alternatives to SoI. This tier the main alternative is primordius, other than chasing WoL ranks.

    Also, yes on animus it can be an issue. I opted into glyphing out of Battle healer and keeping SoI on, as BH is extremely weak on animus.

    A tank with battle healer makes more healing aggro than a healer and on Animus can easily outaggro a healers add.

    wow my comment was really abrasive haha

    I don't really agree though, there is more than enough raid damage to justify SoI on primordius. BH shouldn't be doing much healing at all, so I cant imagine it out-threating a healer's dps unless they're not attacking. Theres nothing to heal in the first phase, make sure they're doing damage to their target. I play ret on animus and keep myself and our enh shaman alive until our adds are down. Alternatively, you could just have your healer on an add that's out of range of the tank at the start.

    Remember any healing you do, even if it doesnt feel like much, can potentially save a significant amount of healer mana

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Remember any healing you do, even if it doesnt feel like much, can potentially save a significant amount of healer mana
    You are swinging a double edged sword. Any damage done can also save a significant amount of healer mana. And what were talking about, was SoR on Primordius, not on animus. Feels like you are talking about animus.

    On primordius it is very benefitial to swap to SoR when you move away from the boss to get mutated. SoR procs the nature damage procs making adds die significantly faster. You won't be doing much physical damage either way since a majority of your damage is the nature damage proc so BH would not really heal much, and if it does, people are likely out of range anyway.

    You then ofc switch back to SoI once you become mutated and go on the boss. Nothing forces you to keep the same seal the entire fight, you can change quite easily

    As for animus, imo, the raid damage is not substained enough to warrant a battle healer glyph. It is a bigger risk than gain. There is no doubt to use SoI. I just rather prefer other glyphs than battle-healer on that fight as its effectiveness is very low.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You are swinging a double edged sword. Any damage done can also save a significant amount of healer mana. And what were talking about, was SoR on Primordius, not on animus. Feels like you are talking about animus.

    On primordius it is very benefitial to swap to SoR when you move away from the boss to get mutated. SoR procs the nature damage procs making adds die significantly faster. You won't be doing much physical damage either way since a majority of your damage is the nature damage proc so BH would not really heal much, and if it does, people are likely out of range anyway.

    You then ofc switch back to SoI once you become mutated and go on the boss. Nothing forces you to keep the same seal the entire fight, you can change quite easily

    As for animus, imo, the raid damage is not substained enough to warrant a battle healer glyph. It is a bigger risk than gain. There is no doubt to use SoI. I just rather prefer other glyphs than battle-healer on that fight as its effectiveness is very low.
    I was thinking about primordius actually, the damage you do with SoR is really pretty low, and the healing a prot pally can do on that fight is absolutely crucial. If you're 3 healing it you're probably fine but again, you're getting carried by overhealing on a 2 heal fight. When you move away from the boss you retain vengeance for 20 seconds and continue to do full damage to the adds and as such can do significant healing during that period. Nobody should ever really be out of range of BH once the fight gets going since your whole raid will haev to be in dps range of the boss or healing range of the tank.

    I might be willing to concede that battle healer is unnecessary on dark animus, but the fight is so painfully easy that I don't really think it warrants discussing which abilities to use.

  19. #59
    The thing is not the SoR damage on Primordius. It is that SotR procs that mutated blahablaha whatever that debuff is called, making you cut through the adds even faster allowing you to mutated faster allowing you to go back to the boss faster allowing you to switch back to SoI earlier allowing you to do more damage to the boss + more healing to the raid.

    Basically, it gets you mutated faster, and is for sure worth it. And the point is, the damage you are doing on the blobs when you are trying to get mutated, none of that procs BH, since you are most likely (should be) using your highest damaging abilities, and the buff you have is nature damage proc and that is by far the highest damage dealer on the adds.

    Its like. Whenever you are trying to get mutated, swich to SoR for killing adds significantly faster. Then switch back to SoI on your way back to boss when you are mutated. Not talking about using SoR the entire fight.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    The thing is not the SoR damage on Primordius. It is that SotR procs that mutated blahablaha whatever that debuff is called, making you cut through the adds even faster allowing you to mutated faster allowing you to go back to the boss faster allowing you to switch back to SoI earlier allowing you to do more damage to the boss + more healing to the raid.

    Basically, it gets you mutated faster, and is for sure worth it. And the point is, the damage you are doing on the blobs when you are trying to get mutated, none of that procs BH, since you are most likely (should be) using your highest damaging abilities, and the buff you have is nature damage proc and that is by far the highest damage dealer on the adds.

    Its like. Whenever you are trying to get mutated, swich to SoR for killing adds significantly faster. Then switch back to SoI on your way back to boss when you are mutated. Not talking about using SoR the entire fight.
    We generally mow down adds following the boss, so as soon as mutation comes off you muck around in the middle and get your stacks back in 10 seconds or so. Not even worth the global to swap. Im assuming that's not how you do it?

    Not sure why you think attacking the blobs wouldn't proc BH

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •