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  1. #21
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    You are presuming that the swapping is not happening when you have a free global. On most fights mentioned you often get a breathing room to swap seals safely without wasting a single global.
    Is it bad I never get breathing room? I always fill that room with Holy Wrath and Consecration.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Felir View Post
    Is it bad I never get breathing room? I always fill that room with Holy Wrath and Consecration.
    Not talking rotationally.

    Like, gara'jal HC, I sometimes used SoT. During the spirit phase, when running from the first spirit to the second I often used Judgement/AS depending on what was on cooldown followed by a seal switch to regen mana. Then during the normal phase I swapped back to SoT when it was time to reapply SS, so I instead made a seal switch rather than a SS application.

    Though that was a bad example.

    Like on Tsulong, during day phase you get free changes when all adds are dead.

    On elegon you can swap during the pylon phase since you always get some dead time then. Etc. Most fights have 1 point in the fight where you are doing nothing for 1-2 seconds. That is the key to swap most of the time.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Not talking rotationally.

    Like, gara'jal HC, I sometimes used SoT. During the spirit phase, when running from the first spirit to the second I often used Judgement/AS depending on what was on cooldown followed by a seal switch to regen mana. Then during the normal phase I swapped back to SoT when it was time to reapply SS, so I instead made a seal switch rather than a SS application.

    Though that was a bad example.

    Like on Tsulong, during day phase you get free changes when all adds are dead.

    On elegon you can swap during the pylon phase since you always get some dead time then. Etc. Most fights have 1 point in the fight where you are doing nothing for 1-2 seconds. That is the key to swap most of the time.
    I'm not sure I understand the gara'jal part. When you're in spirit realm, do you switch to Seal of Truth instead of Seal of Insight?
    Would Seal of Insight not heal you, and buff you with the crit/haste/whatever buff you get from bonus heals?
    I never tanked this fight, im just curious to know if that is a factor for tanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Are you really looking for logic in a game that sends you dragons via the mail service?...

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by DPA View Post
    I'm not sure I understand the gara'jal part. When you're in spirit realm, do you switch to Seal of Truth instead of Seal of Insight?
    Would Seal of Insight not heal you, and buff you with the crit/haste/whatever buff you get from bonus heals?
    I never tanked this fight, im just curious to know if that is a factor for tanks.
    The opposite. Have SoT on gara'jal and SoI in spirit realm.

    As SoI is terrible on gara'jal himself and the enrage used to be an issue. ( those <1% wipes )

    Though it is not for the heal, as I reach 24% buff every single time either way. It is simply because of the mana regen and that it is the best time to change because of nothing else to waste a global on.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-02-13 at 03:31 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  5. #25
    On farm I only use SoT, my healers are good enough to keep me up and it's just a small boost of damage that I like.

    Even in progression, after the initial first pulls where everyone sucks, the healers would tell me how they felt about the healing and I'd end up using SoT on a few fights, though I honestly do not remember which ones, I think I did for blade lord.

    so yeah, farm content is all about SoT, but SoI is just so much more useful for progression

  6. #26

  7. #27
    I was using Seal of Truth a little bit on bosses when I was undergeared. The problem is none of these abilities give much burst damage. Paladins have pretty good sustained damage right now, so there isnt really much need of anything but SOI. I use light's hammer so I dont have much need of SOR for aoe. Doesen't really do all that much extra damage, and the SOI heal helps out with mitigation a bit.
    I wash my hands until the water burns

  8. #28
    Censure should be buffed to at least 2.5x its current strength for Protection (i.e. 50% of its original AP scaling rather than 20%), or Seal of Truth should be removed from the specialization entirely. As it stands now, its only use is for the AI code to swap to it when I'm mind controlled to annoy me and waste a global when I regain control.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    I basically posted the same thing in one of my many rants in the PTR thread; considering they want this game to be more "friendly" to new players and avoid the so-called "trap" talents and abilities, giving Prot (and Holy) SOT and SOR is just kind of counter to their philosophy. Blue posts have STATED that SoI is to be THE tank seal.

    Not sure why they don't just give us the seals as "stances" like monks have based on spec or something.
    Basically they give it to us for those Tanks/Healers who do dailies/quests/PvP etc and want the versatile use of the seals. For instance it can be used to keep people from stealthing do to the dot. Just because we don't use them for raiding though, doesn't mean we can't use them anywhere else.

  10. #30
    The only time I ever change my seal when tanking if when I randomly get MC'd and the AI changes it for me.



  11. #31
    Haven't found any boss yet this tier that made me opt into SoT over SoI during progress. Last tier there were several, but this tier so far SoI takes the victory dominantly.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #32
    I have been switching to SoR while tanking the Horridon adds.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by flyflame View Post
    I have been switching to SoR while tanking the Horridon adds.
    For what reason?

    SoI generates more threat on the adds, aswell as it helps you get intial aggro on adds that spawn far away. It seems like a much more logical choice there.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    For what reason?

    SoI generates more threat on the adds, aswell as it helps you get intial aggro on adds that spawn far away. It seems like a much more logical choice there.
    Well, Horridon isn't a stacked fight. ranged dps and healers usually is outside of Battle Healer's range, SoI and BH's heal on melee just aren't significant enough to grab threat. When I use SoI my healing done for the fight is less than 1/3 of the proper healers that also include Sacred shield.

    So I switched to SoR when I'm on adds and it has been working quite well, esp towards end of each door phase where there's 5-7 adds.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by flyflame View Post
    Well, Horridon isn't a stacked fight. ranged dps and healers usually is outside of Battle Healer's range, SoI and BH's heal on melee just aren't significant enough to grab threat. When I use SoI my healing done for the fight is less than 1/3 of the proper healers that also include Sacred shield.

    So I switched to SoR when I'm on adds and it has been working quite well, esp towards end of each door phase where there's 5-7 adds.
    Battle healer range is 30 yards, peopel are most often within 30 yards of you.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  16. #36
    Bloodsail Admiral Galm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyflame View Post
    Well, Horridon isn't a stacked fight. ranged dps and healers usually is outside of Battle Healer's range, SoI and BH's heal on melee just aren't significant enough to grab threat. When I use SoI my healing done for the fight is less than 1/3 of the proper healers that also include Sacred shield.

    So I switched to SoR when I'm on adds and it has been working quite well, esp towards end of each door phase where there's 5-7 adds.
    If your raid is not on your BH range on Horridon, your overall position for the encounter is completely retarded. Especially if you are having problems with aggro it's not a very smart move to have ranged players in China.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Galm View Post
    If your raid is not on your BH range on Horridon, your overall position for the encounter is completely retarded. Especially if you are having problems with aggro it's not a very smart move to have ranged players in China.
    I didn't say anything about having problems with aggro, I merely stated my observation with regard to SoR working well with Horridon's adds.

    My co-tank is also a tankadin. He used SoI throughout this fight and he's healing done is like this

    Battle Insight 3,739,297 overheal 53.9 %
    Seal of Insight 2,951,549 overheal 62.6 %

    So total threat on his heal is (3,739,297*46.1% + 2,951,549*37.4%)*0.5 = 1,413,847, keep in mind this also include healing done while tanking boss.

    I switch to SoR during adds, and my Seal of Righteousness damage done is 3,736,179.

    Here is the link to the log: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nb...?s=2723&e=3390

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by flyflame View Post
    ---
    SoI gives you aggro on new mobs that just dropped down.
    SoR gives you aggro on mobs already on you.

    Why do you need aggro on the mobs already on you?

    Also, SoI applies to EVERY mob. SoR only to the one that you hit.
    So if there are more than 2-3 mobs, SoI will grant more threat.

    Sorry, but no reason at all to use SoR other than WoL rank hogging.

    Also, your tank was using SotR for 76% of the fight.

    So you did 1413847 healing threat in 24% of the fight.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-03-27 at 05:04 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  19. #39
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Also, SoI applies to EVERY mob. SoR only to the one that you hit.
    So if there are more than 2-3 mobs, SoI will grant more threat.
    One thing to note, though: healing threat is divided amongst all targets in combat. On a fight like Horridon with lots of adds present, the threat per mob per hit is going to be fairly low. Still very useful at grabbing ranged mobs, though.

  20. #40
    Well, that comes back to, the threat on the mobs that SotR can reach is irrelevant, since once mobs are on you, they are on you. SoI helps you to pick up new mobs.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

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