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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    There are mmos where your progression isn't worthless. Eve online, swtors legacy system, rifts attunement system, dcuo skill system etc.
    so play them? and leave WoW with all that gear grind as it is. It's working pretty damn fine for 8 years so people doesn't have problem with that.

  2. #42
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    so play them? and leave WoW with all that gear grind as it is. It's working pretty damn fine for 8 years so people doesn't have problem with that.
    I do. But just because i dislike the gear grind doesn't mean i dislike the other things in it. It's pretty silly to say leave it just because one gaping hole in the game.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    Still the 13 ilvls between tiers remain.
    522 + 13 = 535
    528 + 13 = 541
    I'd like to understand your logic, how "13 ilvls between tiers remain", while we talk about a single tier.

    541 would be H TF before item upgrades, 548 if we follow the same pattern as in 5.1. And my assumption that Ra-den will drop higher ilvl than other heroic bosses (just like Algalon, and maybe Sinestra [not sure, didnt raid during that time]), which would leave Ra-den loot at 547 H TF and 555 after upgrades.

    Thats another "tier" on top of your "tier", in a single true tier.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmekiel View Post
    13 ilvls per tier level is already in the game since WotLK, you're really late only noticing this now.
    522 - 496 = 26.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    ... to change the communities mind about the item squish.

    5.2

    - 522 N
    - 528 N TF
    - 535 H
    - 541 H TF

    Ra-den might have a higher base ilvl than other heroic bosses, lets say 547. So with 5.3 and item upgrades we would be at 555 ilvl for the second tier of this expansion.

    5.4

    - 570 normal?
    - 576 N elite/TF version?
    - 585 heroic?
    - 591 H elite/TF version?

    And with 5.5 item upgrades we'd be at 599 at the end of the expansion, which'd result in a ~200 ilvl jump in a single expansion. Note that we only had 50-70 ilvl jumps in the past expansions, one of them having 4 tiers.
    Ra'den only drops thunderforged gear, no higher than 541.

    There's no tier in 5.3 so the ilvl will start at 540/541/542 in 5.4 (the highest ilvl loot of previous tier determines normal ilvl next tier).

    T11 : 359N-379HC (Sinestra loot decided normal ilvl for next tier)
    T12 : 378N-397HC (Ragnaros loot decided normal ilvl for next tier)
    T13 : 397N-415HC

    T14 : 489N-522HC (HC elite + upgrade decided normal ilvl for next tier (516+8=522))
    T15 : 522N-541HC (HC thunderforged will likely decide ilvl for next tier.
    T16 : 541N-560HC

    My guessing for t16.
    Last edited by Hazori; 2013-02-12 at 11:04 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    522 - 496 = 26.
    505 - 496 = 9

    Just because you might not consider LFR a raid, it still drops raid gear and the iLvL difference still starts there as many raiders will raid it just to start getting drops.

  7. #47
    Dreadlord Miseration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    I do. But just because i dislike the gear grind doesn't mean i dislike the other things in it. It's pretty silly to say leave it just because one gaping hole in the game.
    No it isn't, the concept isn't a broken one. I mean even in life you work hard for the nice stuff you have and older things get replaced because of it. That's why i'm awake at 4am on a tuesday. <3

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Hikashuri View Post
    Ra'den only drops thunderforged gear, no higher than 541.
    How do you know? What if he drops elite thunderforged gear 6 itemlevels higher than regular thunderforged, similar to how every other hardmode only boss had increased ilvl? If that happens, that puts us at a possible 547 ilvl.

    There's no tier in 5.3 so the ilvl will start at 540/541/542 in 5.4 (the highest ilvl loot of previous tier determines normal ilvl next tier).
    But they have said item upgrades will likely be making a return, now putting us at a possible 555 ilvl.

    We won't get past 580 ilvl in 5.4.
    No, but its quite likely we'll be landing right at 580 ilvl.

  9. #49
    Assuming all players have a problem with a huge ilvl increase. I don't. Never will. I wouldn't mind doing 1 million DPS at some point, this obsession players have with small numbers is plain weird.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    How do you know? What if he drops elite thunderforged gear 6 itemlevels higher than regular thunderforged, similar to how every other hardmode only boss had increased ilvl? If that happens, that puts us at a possible 547 ilvl.


    But they have said item upgrades will likely be making a return, now putting us at a possible 555 ilvl.


    No, but its quite likely we'll be landing right at 580 ilvl.
    Correct, except they already confirmed item upgrades to be back in 5.3.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    505 - 496 = 9

    Just because you might not consider LFR a raid, it still drops raid gear and the iLvL difference still starts there as many raiders will raid it just to start getting drops.
    Comparing one raid difficulty against another is stupid. Taking your logic further, lets compare current top end heroic gear with 5.2 LFR gear: 502 - 516 = -14. Well, that's a useful number that demonstrates absolutely nothing.

    When comparing ilvl increase when going up a tier, you should really only consider direct comparisons between each difficulty.

    I.e:
    LFR: 502 - 483 = 19
    Normal: 522 - 496 = 26
    Normal Elite/Thunderforged: 528 - 503 = 25
    Heroic: 535 - 509 = 26
    Heroic Elite/Thundeforged: 541 - 516 = 25

    Anyhow, looking at direct comparisons, normal and heroic raiders are going to be bumping their ilvl up by 25 - 26 this tier. Probably more actually, since any item can be thunderforged rather than certain slots.

    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Assuming all players have a problem with a huge ilvl increase. I don't. Never will. I wouldn't mind doing 1 million DPS at some point, this obsession players have with small numbers is plain weird.
    I actually like huge item level increases. It makes getting single pieces of gear a notable difference in performance. It actually feels worthwhile that way.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    I'm just sick of the gear grind in general -.- You spend weeks/months grinding for some incredibly rare item just for it to become useless in 3months time. It's really not worth my time and effort to do dungeons, raids and scenarios -.- I may as well just grind the things that do carry over through the expansions such as gold,pets,mounts , professions and rep >.<
    Do you want, say your Thunderfury or Molten Core Ragnaros Mace from Seven Years ago and then never ever chase for another weapon?

  13. #53
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Taxing people's computers? lol. Come on realy. The graphics in wow put more tax on any computer then it having to count tens of thousands numbers realy fast. The average computer now days can more then handle counting you do a million dps.

    Unless... You aren't still using a windows 95 laptop are you?
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  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    serioussly guys, would you like to hit mobs for 100 damage again? because I'm sure as hell I won't
    Because... why exactly? You like big numbers as a preference? So your addon never says 1m instead of 1,000,000, right? I'm amazed, but I guess each to his own.

    For anyone else... think about a possible downsizing in an environment where everything, including your group mates, gets scaled down. So now you do 100k dps and imagine a squish that leads you to doing 1k dps. Your teammate is still going to be 10% better or worse than you. So when he does 120k now, he'll do 1,2k then. That won't change. And that's really the only thing that matters, isn't it?

    On a frequent basis I am amused at the irrational fear of downscaling of numbers. To put it to an extreme, I could live with everyone doing 100 dps, as long as that other guy does 120, my contribution to the raid is the same. So is his. Bigger numbers don't change that, it's just more 0's. Or less for the downsizing. But then, I'm probably that unique snowflake that doesn't watch Skada or my FCT during a fight constantly...

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    ... to change the communities mind about the item squish.
    Except most of those who didn't have a problem with it before wont change their minds due to this. I certainly don't because, quite frankly, it makes no effing difference.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    522 - 496 = 26.
    cant argue with this math. it's pretty much solid.
    My weekly podcast can be downloaded here this week a man robs a gas station with a BOOMERANG? wtf

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    Correct, except they already confirmed item upgrades to be back in 5.3.
    No, actually they've only said that they will probably be back.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    ... to change the communities mind about the item squish.
    I really don't see the point. An item squish would hurt soloing old content, so it has a negative side-effect.

    And what's so different about seeing 100 damage or 100k damage or 100m damage? It's just as easy to comprehend to a normal human being.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    Assuming all players have a problem with a huge ilvl increase. I don't. Never will. I wouldn't mind doing 1 million DPS at some point, this obsession players have with small numbers is plain weird.
    Most people don't care either way. That's the people who understood that the relative value of your numbers compared to your opponent (PvE or PvP) and your teammates is what makes the difference, not the number of 0's you see on the screen.

    Since many must play pen'n'paper (who doesn't?), it's like comparing a d20 that rolls 1-20 and a d20 that rolls 81-100. If everyone rolls the same die, it doesn't matter which one you use. I'm sure a smart guy will find a flaw in that logic, but it still illustrates my point, so nyer!
    Last edited by Slant; 2013-02-12 at 12:55 PM.

  20. #60
    Ilvl jumps is problem since Wotlk. This is one of the reasons a progression style of game can't be done. There should be max 6 item level jumps between each tier (as in from T14 to T15)

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