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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    if you read uinterview with one of the devs about it, you would know they want gear to be desired by everybody, they want gear help raiders overcome some roadblock bosses, and I bet they made such big gap in ilvl between lfr and normals because of al lthis complains about raiders are forced into lfr to get upgrades (now they wont)

    It's pretty obvious that 5.2 gear is so high iLevel because they want progression raiders to have to do LFR and Dailies because a) it makes them play more, and b) it puts good raiders in LFR to carry the baddies.
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    I'm just sick of the gear grind in general -.- You spend weeks/months grinding for some incredibly rare item just for it to become useless in 3months time. It's really not worth my time and effort to do dungeons, raids and scenarios -.- I may as well just grind the things that do carry over through the expansions such as gold,pets,mounts , professions and rep >.<
    You just described the entirety of an MMO lol. You progress... get new gear and replace the last "must have" set of gear. It's like replacing that favorite epic you had with a green for the new expansion because its a big improvement. I remember replacing my Darkmoon Card : Greatness with a green... it made me cry inside.

  3. #83
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    It's Crown of the Heavens, not Tinfoil Hat of the Paranoid...
    I want that hat for transmog.... Can I have it pretty please?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Larwood View Post
    Nothing is really different, to us. The problem is in the computer. Why do you think your fps drops in a 25 man raid/world boss kill?
    Oh i don't know... all the graphics maybe? A lot more math goes into showing a player tossing flashbang-bolts than goes into subtracting 200K hitpoints off the boss' HP, multiply the lightshow by 25, and a heck of a lot more work goes into visuals (and processing location and animations) for the 25 people present (Add the mob(s) to that as well) than goes into basic arithmetic concerning HP/damage...

  5. #85
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karazee View Post
    It's pretty obvious that 5.2 gear is so high iLevel because they want progression raiders to have to do LFR and Dailies because a) it makes them play more, and b) it puts good raiders in LFR to carry the baddies.
    as for B
    Most problems in LFR are caused by self entitled good players, ignoring the basics since it's "just faceroll LFR". Like pulling entire rooms of trash, overwhelming the raid.... More than often those "good raiders" turn out to be the real baddies, due to their arrogance....

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Sainiunit View Post
    The rate that ilvl is increasing at is kinda freaky. I really dislike how gear is starting to be more important than personal play in terms of DPS.
    I'm with you there. Getting a 95 percentile parse nowadays isn't difficult at all because of my gear. I know it's a gear thing. I've heard gear had become a big part of it in PVP too, but at least they're making it more available next season (probably as a result of that).

    The gear gap should be closing again 5.2. You can get nearly a full set of 522s from raid rep. But we'll see. Depends on the drop rate of Heroic TF.
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2013-02-12 at 04:02 PM.

  7. #87
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Well there needs to be a certain ilevel gap to make upgrades normal-heroic-thunderforged-upgraded desired. Otherwise we'd raid SoO in t14.
    You don't create "justice" by destroying. That includes buildings, cars, or the careers of the people you want "justice" for.


  8. #88
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    if you read uinterview with one of the devs about it, you would know they want gear to be desired by everybody, they want gear help raiders overcome some roadblock bosses, and I bet they made such big gap in ilvl between lfr and normals because of al lthis complains about raiders are forced into lfr to get upgrades (now they wont)
    Correction. Only 16/16 heroic geared raiders won't be "forced" to find upgrades in LFR. LFR gear is 502, meaning that unless you have fully upgraded Terrace/HoF gear minimum...there's going to be pieces that you can upgrade through LFR. Normal mode raiders that still seek to min/max or people with just bad luck (like my awesome luck on Shek'zeer for my tier token, as an example) will find upgrades in LFR, which to me still seems a bit overboard. LFR should upgrade only from LFR, the item levels are indeed too high in my opinion. LFR should have been 488-492 range, with normal mode being around the 510-514 range and heroic being 524-530 range.

    The gaps from tier to tier are too big right now, which I see as problematic. To go from an LFR of 476/483 to an LFR of 502 and a normal of 489/496 to 522 is a massive jump.

  9. #89
    483+8=491, your idea means this tier would be "here is you 1ilvl upgrade, see you next tier" for a lot of lfr raiders (not even counting 489 valor gear here)
    that's way to small of a progression to have any kind of significance

    like it or not, lfr is here to stay and the people running it expect meaningful loot progression out of it too

  10. #90
    It's too late for Blizzard to turn back now. Several expansions back they could have made this game be more about character development rather than the gear that you wear/win off a boss.

    It's clear somewhere along the way Blizzard decided it would be more profitable and would keep players more interested in the game by forcing the player base to chase the proverbial carrot by improving their gear from boss kills.

    You get what you pay for, inflated item levels because gear is the only thing this game has become about. One of the things which has me looking forward to Elder Scrolls Online, where the focus is not going to be on the items you own.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by djtravitrav View Post
    Several expansions back they could have made this game be more about character development rather than the gear that you wear/win off a boss.
    1.0? ^^
    edit: removed that don't want to start a game vs game vs game thingy ^^
    Last edited by Enosh; 2013-02-12 at 04:32 PM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by nemro82 View Post
    I bet they made such big gap in ilvl between lfr and normals because of al lthis complains about raiders are forced into lfr to get upgrades (now they wont)
    Yes they will. LFR T15 502 ilvl tier sets are more desirable than obsolete 509 T14 ones. Even heroic geared FL raiders ran DS LFR to scoop up t13 on account of superior bonuses (even though ilvl was lower), they did that to an extreme and at the detriment of other players. Real raiders will want the good set bonuses and will run LFR along with normal until they are all 4 set out. the jumps are outrageous. Gear should be meaningful but not the end all of performance. A good player with a 380 ilvl could dance circles around a baddie with a 395 ilvl back in DS. Now, with gaps being an additional 30 ilvl points between respective gear it simply can't be done. Carried by Gear, the new theme of MoP.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by djtravitrav View Post
    It's too late for Blizzard to turn back now. Several expansions back they could have made this game be more about character development rather than the gear that you wear/win off a boss.

    It's clear somewhere along the way Blizzard decided it would be more profitable and would keep players more interested in the game by forcing the player base to chase the proverbial carrot by improving their gear from boss kills.

    You get what you pay for, inflated item levels because gear is the only thing this game has become about. One of the things which has me looking forward to Elder Scrolls Online, where the focus is not going to be on the items you own.
    They tried that in Guild Wars 2, and it's boring as hell. I was in a very big guild, and month later 80% people quit cause there was nothing to do, no purpose, no goal.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 04:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Yes they will. LFR T15 502 ilvl tier sets are more desirable than obsolete 509 T14 ones.
    I wouldnt be so sure. Normal raiders will kill few first bosses and get 522 items that will pump them too high to ever bother with lfr.
    Last edited by nemro82; 2013-02-12 at 04:36 PM.

  14. #94
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UcanDoSht View Post
    ... to change the communities mind about the item squish.

    5.2

    - 522 N
    - 528 N TF
    - 535 H
    - 541 H TF

    Ra-den might have a higher base ilvl than other heroic bosses, lets say 547. So with 5.3 and item upgrades we would be at 555 ilvl for the second tier of this expansion.

    5.4

    - 570 normal?
    - 576 N elite/TF version?
    - 585 heroic?
    - 591 H elite/TF version?

    And with 5.5 item upgrades we'd be at 599 at the end of the expansion, which'd result in a ~200 ilvl jump in a single expansion. Note that we only had 50-70 ilvl jumps in the past expansions, one of them having 4 tiers.
    522-547: 25 ilevel jump, ~5% increase (rounded up)
    76-83: 7 ilevel jump, ~9% increase. (rounded down)
    128-138: 10 ilevel jump, ~8% increase (rounded up)
    226-239: 13 ilevel jump, ~6% increase (rounded up)
    378-397: 19 ilevel jump, ~5% increase (rounded down)

    The ilevel jumps seem to be increasing, but the relative amount they are actually changing within a tier has actually been slowing down. In classic you were having 9% jumps in the second tier, and now the second tier has less than a 5% increase in ilevels.

    As to whole expansion? including levelling gear

    BC: 81-164, increase of 83 ilevels, or 102.5% increase
    Wrath: 138-284: 146 ilevel increase, 105.8% increase
    Cata: 272-416: 144 ilevel increase, 52% increase
    Mists (projected): 372-599: 227 ilevel increase: 61% increase

    It's a greater increase than Cata, but still markedly less than BC or Wrath. And that's including all the loot from the first quest you get loot from to the highest version of the last boss's loot table
    Last edited by mistuhbull; 2013-02-12 at 04:46 PM.
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

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    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

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  15. #95
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    There will never be an item squish.

  16. #96
    Mechagnome zEmini's Avatar
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    I like the idea of getting my character more and more powerful. I like how my character can solo stuff easier and easier. If that bothers you, just don't upgrade your gear and/or buy the expansions.

    In truth I would love to do 1M DPS someday.

  17. #97
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orasay1996 View Post
    You guy's still don't get it do you? They are basicly bumping the item level for one reason! And that reason is that they want the numbers to reach so stupid numbers, for them to be able to make an item squish in the next xpac?

    They want our computers to break as were fighting the world bosses in the Sige of orgrimmar patch!

    If you have Recount/skada in mop the amount of ram it uses is just fuckin stupid
    There's not enough tinfoil in the world to cover all of that. A lot of people aren't really bothered by the numbers. Some even like them. I think the squish is coming eventually but there's no mass movement for it to happen nor is there ever likely to be. And believe it: when it does happen, it will be like the sky is falling for a lot of people.

    As others have pointed out, Recount and Skada are addons that Blizzard has little-to-nothing to do with. If you would wish for them to have more efficient memory management you should leave a note in the appropriate place so that whoever wrote the addon can see your concerns.
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  18. #98
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodon View Post
    Your computer would only run in to performance issues if you have something like 2GB of RAM. The game engine isn't that efficient to begin with, compared to more modern MMO engines. If Skada or Recount is causing you issues then choose not to use them.

    Currently my Recount is using 6MB of memory out of the 5000~ I have available.
    Its not about RAM. Higher numbers do not affect RAM at any alarming rate, its the CPU that starts struggling more as numbers grow bigger due to bigger numbers demanding bigger calculations.

    Still, this is assuming you are not playing on a computer made of wood, something newer will not struggle for quite some time.
    Last edited by rashen; 2013-02-12 at 06:43 PM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Karazee View Post
    It's pretty obvious that 5.2 gear is so high iLevel because they want progression raiders to have to do LFR and Dailies because a) it makes them play more, and b) it puts good raiders in LFR to carry the baddies.
    5.2 is so high ilvl so that players who have not progressed far in organized raids have a path, but progressed raiders don't need LFR.
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  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadde111 View Post
    If you feel like you're about to piss your pants over the ilvls just cut them by 1/10 and stfu really - its just a number to help mindless people to determine which gear belongs to which tier/pick the one with higher ilvl in 97% on times sort of thing.
    No.

    ilvl scaling is ridiculous and seems to be on an exponential curve.

    Every increase in ilvl is greater than the previous increase. This leads to a larger than ever discrepancy between players. This has especially heavy repercussions in PvP but also adversely effects PvE.
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