Blizzard sky rockets the ilvls purposely ...

[Maelstrom51]

13 ilvls per tier level is already in the game since WotLK, you're really late only noticing this now.

522 - 496 = 26.

[Deleted]

... to change the communities mind about the item squish.

5.2

- 522 N
- 528 N TF
- 535 H
- 541 H TF

Ra-den might have a higher base ilvl than other heroic bosses, lets say 547. So with 5.3 and item upgrades we would be at 555 ilvl for the second tier of this expansion.

5.4

- 570 normal?
- 576 N elite/TF version?
- 585 heroic?
- 591 H elite/TF version?

And with 5.5 item upgrades we'd be at 599 at the end of the expansion, which'd result in a ~200 ilvl jump in a single expansion. Note that we only had 50-70 ilvl jumps in the past expansions, one of them having 4 tiers.

Ra'den only drops thunderforged gear, no higher than 541.

There's no tier in 5.3 so the ilvl will start at 540/541/542 in 5.4 (the highest ilvl loot of previous tier determines normal ilvl next tier).

T11 : 359N-379HC (Sinestra loot decided normal ilvl for next tier)
T12 : 378N-397HC (Ragnaros loot decided normal ilvl for next tier)
T13 : 397N-415HC

T14 : 489N-522HC (HC elite + upgrade decided normal ilvl for next tier (516+8=522))
T15 : 522N-541HC (HC thunderforged will likely decide ilvl for next tier.
T16 : 541N-560HC

My guessing for t16.

[Lucetia]

522 - 496 = 26.

505 - 496 = 9

Just because you might not consider LFR a raid, it still drops raid gear and the iLvL difference still starts there as many raiders will raid it just to start getting drops.

[Miseration]

I do. But just because i dislike the gear grind doesn't mean i dislike the other things in it. It's pretty silly to say leave it just because one gaping hole in the game.

No it isn't, the concept isn't a broken one. I mean even in life you work hard for the nice stuff you have and older things get replaced because of it. That's why i'm awake at 4am on a tuesday. <3

[Maelstrom51]

Ra'den only drops thunderforged gear, no higher than 541.

How do you know? What if he drops elite thunderforged gear 6 itemlevels higher than regular thunderforged, similar to how every other hardmode only boss had increased ilvl? If that happens, that puts us at a possible 547 ilvl.

There's no tier in 5.3 so the ilvl will start at 540/541/542 in 5.4 (the highest ilvl loot of previous tier determines normal ilvl next tier).

But they have said item upgrades will likely be making a return, now putting us at a possible 555 ilvl.

We won't get past 580 ilvl in 5.4.

No, but its quite likely we'll be landing right at 580 ilvl.

[Deleted]

Assuming all players have a problem with a huge ilvl increase. I don't. Never will. I wouldn't mind doing 1 million DPS at some point, this obsession players have with small numbers is plain weird.

[Deleted]

How do you know? What if he drops elite thunderforged gear 6 itemlevels higher than regular thunderforged, similar to how every other hardmode only boss had increased ilvl? If that happens, that puts us at a possible 547 ilvl.


But they have said item upgrades will likely be making a return, now putting us at a possible 555 ilvl.


No, but its quite likely we'll be landing right at 580 ilvl.

Correct, except they already confirmed item upgrades to be back in 5.3.

[Maelstrom51]

505 - 496 = 9

Just because you might not consider LFR a raid, it still drops raid gear and the iLvL difference still starts there as many raiders will raid it just to start getting drops.

Comparing one raid difficulty against another is stupid. Taking your logic further, lets compare current top end heroic gear with 5.2 LFR gear: 502 - 516 = -14. Well, that's a useful number that demonstrates absolutely nothing.

When comparing ilvl increase when going up a tier, you should really only consider direct comparisons between each difficulty.

I.e:
LFR: 502 - 483 = 19
Normal: 522 - 496 = 26
Normal Elite/Thunderforged: 528 - 503 = 25
Heroic: 535 - 509 = 26
Heroic Elite/Thundeforged: 541 - 516 = 25

Anyhow, looking at direct comparisons, normal and heroic raiders are going to be bumping their ilvl up by 25 - 26 this tier. Probably more actually, since any item can be thunderforged rather than certain slots.

Assuming all players have a problem with a huge ilvl increase. I don't. Never will. I wouldn't mind doing 1 million DPS at some point, this obsession players have with small numbers is plain weird.

I actually like huge item level increases. It makes getting single pieces of gear a notable difference in performance. It actually feels worthwhile that way.

[Airwaves]

Taxing people's computers? lol. Come on realy. The graphics in wow put more tax on any computer then it having to count tens of thousands numbers realy fast. The average computer now days can more then handle counting you do a million dps.

Unless... You aren't still using a windows 95 laptop are you?

[Slant]

serioussly guys, would you like to hit mobs for 100 damage again? because I'm sure as hell I won't

Because... why exactly? You like big numbers as a preference? So your addon never says 1m instead of 1,000,000, right? I'm amazed, but I guess each to his own.

For anyone else... think about a possible downsizing in an environment where everything, including your group mates, gets scaled down. So now you do 100k dps and imagine a squish that leads you to doing 1k dps. Your teammate is still going to be 10% better or worse than you. So when he does 120k now, he'll do 1,2k then. That won't change. And that's really the only thing that matters, isn't it?

On a frequent basis I am amused at the irrational fear of downscaling of numbers. To put it to an extreme, I could live with everyone doing 100 dps, as long as that other guy does 120, my contribution to the raid is the same. So is his. Bigger numbers don't change that, it's just more 0's. Or less for the downsizing. But then, I'm probably that unique snowflake that doesn't watch Skada or my FCT during a fight constantly...

[huth]

... to change the communities mind about the item squish.

Except most of those who didn't have a problem with it before wont change their minds due to this. I certainly don't because, quite frankly, it makes no effing difference.

[Sierra85]

522 - 496 = 26.

cant argue with this math. it's pretty much solid.

[huth]

Correct, except they already confirmed item upgrades to be back in 5.3.

No, actually they've only said that they will probably be back.

[Deleted]

... to change the communities mind about the item squish.

I really don't see the point. An item squish would hurt soloing old content, so it has a negative side-effect.

And what's so different about seeing 100 damage or 100k damage or 100m damage? It's just as easy to comprehend to a normal human being.

[Slant]

Assuming all players have a problem with a huge ilvl increase. I don't. Never will. I wouldn't mind doing 1 million DPS at some point, this obsession players have with small numbers is plain weird.

Most people don't care either way. That's the people who understood that the relative value of your numbers compared to your opponent (PvE or PvP) and your teammates is what makes the difference, not the number of 0's you see on the screen.

Since many must play pen'n'paper (who doesn't?), it's like comparing a d20 that rolls 1-20 and a d20 that rolls 81-100. If everyone rolls the same die, it doesn't matter which one you use. I'm sure a smart guy will find a flaw in that logic, but it still illustrates my point, so nyer!

[Mongoose19]

Ilvl jumps is problem since Wotlk. This is one of the reasons a progression style of game can't be done. There should be max 6 item level jumps between each tier (as in from T14 to T15)

[Deleted]

How do you know? What if he drops elite thunderforged gear 6 itemlevels higher than regular thunderforged, similar to how every other hardmode only boss had increased ilvl? If that happens, that puts us at a possible 547 ilvl.


But they have said item upgrades will likely be making a return, now putting us at a possible 555 ilvl.


No, but its quite likely we'll be landing right at 580 ilvl.

The loot tables on ptr show that ra'den only has thunderforged heroic gear on it's table. There could be more stuff added but I doubt it.

Also there won't be heroic thunderforged super thunderforged gear on Ra'den, just plan thunderforged hc (541).

I doubt we'll hit 580. Even with upgrades, it won't be above 570, my guess 568.

[Deleted]

No, actually they've only said that they will probably be back.

Read yesterdays blue blog post on 5.2

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...to-Kill-a-King

It says likely, as in, if they dont decide on nerf auras pre 5.4 for raids, item upgrades will be back.

[Larwood]

I really don't see the point. An item squish would hurt soloing old content, so it has a negative side-effect.

And what's so different about seeing 100 damage or 100k damage or 100m damage? It's just as easy to comprehend to a normal human being.

Nothing is really different, to us. The problem is in the computer. Why do you think your fps drops in a 25 man raid/world boss kill?

[braeldiil]

The ilevel increases really don't seem out of line from the previous expansions. Doing a little bit of poking, I see the following deltas from top-level dungeon gear at release to the top raid tier gear.

WoW 62 (BRS) to 92 (Naxx) multiple 1.45
TBC 105 (heroic) to 164 (Sunwell) multiple 1.56
WotLK 200 (heroic UP) to 284 (heroic LK) multiple 1.42
Cata 346 (heroic dung) to 416 (heroic DS) multiple 1.2
MoP 463 (heroic dung) to ???

With a Cata multiplier, top end would be 555, but that's by far the smallest increase. By the original/WotLK multipliers, we'd be looking at a 657 ilevel. And using the 1.45 multiplier, but reduced to 3 tiers instead of 4, we get 611.