1. #1

    Lightbulb My Naive DK View

    Hello,

    I am in no way a top Death Knight player. I love the class, but I keep feeling discouraged by being "outshined" in mainly PvP by other players...

    On the forums I see alot of people "whining" that Death Knights are paper. Have too little Mobility. No stuns. No Silences. While making DK's more powerful, with extra Mobility, 2 more stuns every 30 seconds, free abilities, better healing tier might fix the PvP ballance, I do not think that is the way to go about it.

    Making myself unpopular with many classes here...
    ... but I believe the problem is in the many "quality of life" improvements for the other classes.

    Ranged Killers
    Ranged Killers are able to move around like crazy, with little loss of DPS. And at the same tome they have a ton of anti-CC and CC themself. Any class what have fewer CC abilities than they have anti-CC and CC together, while not doing signifigantly more damage than them will lose.

    The solution: Make our Ranged friends stop moving to keep up their DPS.
    It puts the "need for CC" onto the ranged classes - try to keep the Melee away to stay alive. Of course, for this to work, the melee classes must be able to do signifigant damage to the ranged killers once they catch them and keep them in range for a long time.


    Healers
    Although they are killable when 2 goes vs 1, they are near unkillable in 1 vs 1. Might be because I am a bad player - but I find that the time to kill a healer is very high - unless they are outnumbered...

    The solution: Make the friendly healers need to stop moving to keep up the healing.
    Again, it puts the need to CC on the healers - they need to find a way to keep the melee out of range, so they can heal.


    Warriors and Rogues
    An entirely chapter in itself currently.
    The class is on level with the Healers, and Ranged Killers currently. They have the amount of CC themself, that they can keep the RK's and Healers still to make a kill.


    Death Knights and Paladins
    Little CC themself, and in the DK case low "mobility" (or anti-cc).
    A solution could be to give thiese 2 classes the tools to keep Healers and RK's CC'ed and stunned in range...
    ... but everyone hates not being able to do anything. Thus the current hate on warriors - it would make PvP a stunlock game.

    Upping thiese classes burst further, in response to their hardship in keeping people in range and staying unstunned, could also be a solution - but I think that would be hard to ballance in PvE environments.


    Suggestion
    I believe that PvPing could be ballanced better, if some classes lost a bunch of CC abilities, and that people were forced to stand still more while healing and ranged DPS'ing.


    This is probably very poorly written. Hopefully I can delete this post again, when I feel it have been flamed enough and I have thereby realized how wrong I am.

    Kind regards.
    Ieet

  2. #2
    Death Knights are very solid, and even more so with patch 5.2. They are highly in demand in RBGs and they are already getting buffs coming next patch.

    I think you need to wait until 5.2 to claim they need further buffing.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    Death Knights are very solid, and even more so with patch 5.2. They are highly in demand in RBGs and they are already getting buffs coming next patch.

    I think you need to wait until 5.2 to claim they need further buffing.

    I agree with corebit (although I understand where you're coming from too) I also suggest switching to UH if you haven't already... that in itself allows you to pretty much solo healers 1v1. Depends what type of healer though to be fair but I was soloing paladins and druids last night in AB with ease (I'm full dreadful with malev legs and wep)

    Mobility isn't a HUGE issue although against certain classes, you're screwed. I fought a frost mage a week or two ago that clearly outgeared me but I won (he used all the cooldowns he had up) - It was a lot of luck on my part as I managed to time all my CD's perfectly. It's nice having AMS + essentially 3 trinkets every 2mins :P

  4. #4
    The main issues as DK is a strong defensive CD vs melee and insanely low pet hp imo. Otherwhise they feel fine, good class overall.

    Now you can dummy train a DK since even during IBT, he goes down very fast. Maybe increase IBT to 35% ,while in blood presence, would do the trick. DK pets in a nova and frost bomb coming your way? Except for that you will take a beating your pet will be dead.

  5. #5
    I get the feeling you dont play ranged dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ieet View Post
    Death Knights and Paladins
    Little CC themself, and in the DK case low "mobility" (or anti-cc).
    A solution could be to give thiese 2 classes the tools to keep Healers and RK's CC'ed and stunned in range...
    The difference is dks and pallys have alot they can do while out of melee range. Unholy, specifically, has multiple ranged attacks and a pet to deal damage and has heavy dot damage. Compare this to wars and rogues which can do basically nothing when off a target. Unholy dks are looking to be very strong in 5.2.

    Overall, if everyone was forced to stop moving more often then melee would dominate everything. They should make cast spells more attractive than instants imo but instants still need a place.
    Last edited by Hand Banana; 2013-02-12 at 06:33 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ieet View Post
    Hello,

    I am in no way a top Death Knight player. I love the class, but I keep feeling discouraged by being "outshined" in mainly PvP by other players...

    On the forums I see alot of people "whining" that Death Knights are paper. Have too little Mobility. No stuns. No Silences. While making DK's more powerful, with extra Mobility, 2 more stuns every 30 seconds, free abilities, better healing tier might fix the PvP ballance, I do not think that is the way to go about it.

    Making myself unpopular with many classes here...
    ... but I believe the problem is in the many "quality of life" improvements for the other classes.

    Ranged Killers
    Ranged Killers are able to move around like crazy, with little loss of DPS. And at the same tome they have a ton of anti-CC and CC themself. Any class what have fewer CC abilities than they have anti-CC and CC together, while not doing signifigantly more damage than them will lose.

    The solution: Make our Ranged friends stop moving to keep up their DPS.
    It puts the "need for CC" onto the ranged classes - try to keep the Melee away to stay alive. Of course, for this to work, the melee classes must be able to do signifigant damage to the ranged killers once they catch them and keep them in range for a long time.


    Healers
    Although they are killable when 2 goes vs 1, they are near unkillable in 1 vs 1. Might be because I am a bad player - but I find that the time to kill a healer is very high - unless they are outnumbered...

    The solution: Make the friendly healers need to stop moving to keep up the healing.
    Again, it puts the need to CC on the healers - they need to find a way to keep the melee out of range, so they can heal.


    Warriors and Rogues
    An entirely chapter in itself currently.
    The class is on level with the Healers, and Ranged Killers currently. They have the amount of CC themself, that they can keep the RK's and Healers still to make a kill.


    Death Knights and Paladins
    Little CC themself, and in the DK case low "mobility" (or anti-cc).
    A solution could be to give thiese 2 classes the tools to keep Healers and RK's CC'ed and stunned in range...
    ... but everyone hates not being able to do anything. Thus the current hate on warriors - it would make PvP a stunlock game.

    Upping thiese classes burst further, in response to their hardship in keeping people in range and staying unstunned, could also be a solution - but I think that would be hard to ballance in PvE environments.


    Suggestion
    I believe that PvPing could be ballanced better, if some classes lost a bunch of CC abilities, and that people were forced to stand still more while healing and ranged DPS'ing.


    This is probably very poorly written. Hopefully I can delete this post again, when I feel it have been flamed enough and I have thereby realized how wrong I am.

    Kind regards.
    Ieet
    That's still not a legitimate justification for Strangulate being on a 2 minute cooldown, I mean seriously it's ridiculous. Theoretically it can be trinketed without any ramifications... You have to be given the opportunity to use single target CC again before the opponents trinket is up. We're already such a damage based class, why not move towards something more exciting? CC is not an issue, CC is the essential definition of pure WoW PvP... However, burst is an issue.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 08:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by corebit View Post
    Death Knights are very solid, and even more so with patch 5.2. They are highly in demand in RBGs and they are already getting buffs coming next patch.

    I think you need to wait until 5.2 to claim they need further buffing.
    We definitely don't need more buffs with these recent PTR changes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 08:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    I get the feeling you dont play ranged dps.



    The difference is dks and pallys have alot they can do while out of melee range. Unholy, specifically, has multiple ranged attacks and a pet to deal damage and has heavy dot damage. Compare this to wars and rogues which can do basically nothing when off a target. Unholy dks are looking to be very strong in 5.2.

    Overall, if everyone was forced to stop moving more often then melee would dominate everything. They should make cast spells more attractive than instants imo but instants still need a place.
    Casting melee's? I'm sure happy that you're not a developer...
    Last edited by Senathor; 2013-02-12 at 07:02 PM.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    3,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    Casting melee's? I'm sure happy that you're not a developer...
    He was talking about casters having too many instants, and not having to cast that often anymore... lmao?

    Like thisnamesucks said, (unh) DKs aren't in need of so many CCs because of their pressure. Ultimately their pressure is their "cc". Though it would be nice to have lower CDs on certain CC (like pet gnaw, with the energy cost removed...). It also wouldn't hurt if they gave DKs Death's Advance as a baseline ability, seeing as it's a tier that's more focused around CC than mobility :/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •