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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    Actually, I don't know why I bothered posting on this thread. Because most here, won't get it. They won't separate the extremists from the people actually trying to change. They won't get that feminism is not about making women better than men, it's about having women equal to men.
    But of course, extremists like in the video, have tainted people's mindsets.

    Why feminism needs to happen: Why is it okay for a girl to have a male role model, but not for a boy to have a female role model? Why is it an insult for a man to be feminine? Why is a strong, determined male a good thing, but when a female is strong and determined, she's called a bitch.
    Then why is it called feminism instead of equalism or something? It is fine for a boy to have a female role model. Ain't nothing wrong with being feminine but you may get confused for gay if you are just like a manly woman will probably be thought to be lesbian. Strong females aren't called bitches, bitches are called bitches because they are bitches.

  2. #22
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daskapital View Post
    Feminism isn't a monolothic entity. The fact that you are incapable of recognizing that demonstrates that you aren't equipped to discuss its relevance.

    As far as this specific act of "protest" is concerned, it looks like these women are performing their displeasure with the Catholic Church from within one of its main symbols in Western Europe. My guess is that their bared breasts are intended to offend the sensibilities of an institution that continues to view the feminine as subaltern by brandishing one of the most recognizable symbols of femininity. Maybe the idea is something along the lines of: "You use our tits to mark us as inferior and justify treating us as separate from you, well here, get a good look at them." or something.

    At the end of the day, this is certainly stupid and accomplishes little more than being a symbolic act of disobedience. But I find it nowhere near as offensive as the Catholic Church's institutionalized abuse of children.
    What a load of rubbish. They're not being smart, they're not being clever and there is little meaning behind it. I'm disgusted by almost all religions and what they've done to people over the years, but running around half naked, and refusing to leave just makes them, and their cause, pointless and a waste of time.

    They're meaning (if they did have one) was undermined because of this act, as are many of the feminist views. If most of these women would just come to the table, accept the facts of the world, and worked towards a good balance, women would be in a much better position, and it would've worked. This whole rebellion thing though makes it very hard to the world leaders, to take it seriously...

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    Why feminism needs to happen: Why is it okay for a girl to have a male role model, but not for a boy to have a female role model? Why is it an insult for a man to be feminine? Why is a strong, determined male a good thing, but when a female is strong and determined, she's called a bitch.
    If you think men and women are ~perfectly equal~, you are so obviously ignorant, it's quite sad.
    Take off the martyr's placard, and you get Egalitarianism;

    belief in the equality of all people, especially in political, social, or economic life.
    All the fun of equality with none of the bias!
    The first thing I remember about the world — and I pray that it may be the last — is that I was a stranger in it.” - Malcolm Muggeridge, Apologia pro vita sua (1968)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Not rarely. Stop being so closed minded. Men & Women are perfectly equal in the world (generally), because nature never intended for either of the sexes to be the same, otherwise, we'd all be the same.

    Men have a role in the world, women have a role in the world. Feminism has caused more issues for women then it has cured. It has created generations of young women who rebel, and will end up getting no-where because of it...
    Who is close minded? You do realize without those young women who rebelled the Woman's place in the world would still be barefoot and pregnant in the Kitchen right? I'm not supporting what the women in the OP did and some feminists get crazy but if you think the world is and always has been equal you're incredibly close minded.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    Who is close minded? You do realize without those young women who rebelled the Woman's place in the world would still be barefoot and pregnant in the Kitchen right? I'm not supporting what the women in the OP did and some feminists get crazy but if you think the world is and always has been equal you're incredibly close minded.
    this was true of 1900 not 2013

  6. #26
    Maybe they want a female pope...?

  7. #27
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    Not sure where you got that from. Statistics show that on average women get paid less for doing the same job. Not just being at the same company, that's nonsense, for doing the same job.
    I'm not going to refute statistics if you can provide any, but in my own personal experience (of well over 60 women) they've all been paid less because they do less work, and they do different jobs, yet they always complained about less pay.

    60 women is hardly a good test pool to go off, I know, but I'm only going off what I know is fact. Many of the women I've hired, worked with or known complain about their work loads and their pay, yet their male counterparts on average work longer hours and are more productive, hence the higher pay.

    That doesn't mean this the case all over the world, and that in some places women are paid less, I know it happens, but it isn't as systemic as some people might think...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    Because women still get paid less than men, for doing the same job.
    Because women still get blamed for getting raped, rather than the rapist.
    Because women still get judged for their appearance and beauty, rather than their minds.
    Because women can only be one body type, according to the media.
    Because men think feminism doesn't need to be around anymore, that's why feminism still needs to be around. It's just women being 'oh it's so 1900's.'
    No, women are still oppressed, and if you think that they are not, you're the reason why women are fighting for equality.

    (and the video 'feminists' are extremists.)

    1- That one has no justifiable excuse. Blame stupid old-school management of all levels.
    2- Yet there are women feigning rape to get men in the slammer.
    3- Just because you're admired for beauty doesn't mean you can't be admired for your brains. If anything, brains is a concealed weapon in this case. Non-issue. And if beauty is such a problem for women, they could, you know, stop showcasing it and refuse to participate in any activity related to that.
    4- Like the media are reliable. Blame idiots altogether for this, not men.
    5- Baseless conjecture. Feminism as it was intended to be has a reason to exist. Feminazism has no reason to exist as it is misguidance in its most grotesque form.
    6- They're not nearly as oppressed as 70 years ago, or even further. You failing to realize that is the reason why you label all men as scum.

    Also, equality between sexes will never be achieved as men are women are different both physically and mentally. Men are often more rational whereas women are more creative. Of course, a rule can't be a rule without exceptions, but you'd have to agree that those differences, and many more, are factual.

    Plus, you're making no mention of these women wanting all the benefits, but deflecting all the responsibilities.

    What I believe is that we can eventually come to terms with equivalence, rather than equality, because of those differences.
    Last edited by marthsk; 2013-02-12 at 07:36 PM.
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    Actually, I don't know why I bothered posting on this thread. Because most here, won't get it. They won't separate the extremists from the people actually trying to change. They won't get that feminism is not about making women better than men, it's about having women equal to men.
    But of course, extremists like in the video, have tainted people's mindsets.

    Why feminism needs to happen: Why is it okay for a girl to have a male role model, but not for a boy to have a female role model? Why is it an insult for a man to be feminine? Why is a strong, determined male a good thing, but when a female is strong and determined, she's called a bitch.
    If you think men and women are ~perfectly equal~, you are so obviously ignorant, it's quite sad.
    None of which are issues and you've clearly misunderstood them.

    A positive influence can be a role model, regardless of sex.
    It's not an insult for a man to be feminine.
    Determined women aren't bitches. One could easily argue that determined men are bastards. Alas, not mutually exclusive to women.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    Actually, I don't know why I bothered posting on this thread. Because most here, won't get it. They won't separate the extremists from the people actually trying to change. They won't get that feminism is not about making women better than men, it's about having women equal to men.
    But of course, extremists like in the video, have tainted people's mindsets.

    Why feminism needs to happen: Why is it okay for a girl to have a male role model, but not for a boy to have a female role model? Why is it an insult for a man to be feminine? Why is a strong, determined male a good thing, but when a female is strong and determined, she's called a bitch.
    If you think men and women are ~perfectly equal~, you are so obviously ignorant, it's quite sad.
    Why call it feminism? Why not call it equality? Lets fight for equality instead?
    Your argument "most here wont get it" is a cheap way out to avoid real arguments and real discussion.

    Equality needs to happen. Not feminism...

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Then why is it called feminism instead of realism or something? It is fine for a boy to have a female role model. Ain't nothing wrong with being feminine but you may get confused for gay if you are just like a manly woman will probably be thought to be lesbian. Strong females aren't called bitches, bitches are called bitches because they are bitches.
    Not sure, ask the people who started it?
    And not really. If a boy puts up a poster of say, Hilary Clinton in his room, for his role model, it's going to be 'a little weird'. But a girl putting up a poster of Barrack Obama? Totally fine, no weirdness at all.

    But you just confirmed my point... Being called gay (sadly) is still an insult. Even being confused for being gay, for some people, is an insult. A masculine girl isn't necessarily a lesbian, should could just be a tomboy. But any slight feminism in men, OH NO BAD.

    What defines a bitch then? Tell me a strong female, who at some point hasn't been called a bitch for fighting for what she believes in.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    Who is close minded? You do realize without those young women who rebelled the Woman's place in the world would still be barefoot and pregnant in the Kitchen right? I'm not supporting what the women in the OP did and some feminists get crazy but if you think the world is and always has been equal you're incredibly close minded.
    Yes but times change... Feminism was once extremely important, but there is very little need for it in today's society because there is pretty much gender equality in civilized countries.

    I'm just trying to figure out how oppressed they must feel to go to these lengths... And what they must believe needs to change to make them stop.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    this was true of 1900 not 2013
    This was true in the 70s. Women are on more of an equal footing now but to say that they're exactly equal is pretty short sighted.

  14. #34
    Seems a lot of feminism can be drawn to the confusion over men and women being the same, men and women being different, and men and women being equal.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    Why call it feminism? Why not call it equality? Lets fight for equality instead?
    Your argument "most here wont get it" is a cheap way out to avoid real arguments and real discussion.

    Equality needs to happen. Not feminism...
    Cause it's not equality when you're fighting for the rights of only one group.

  16. #36
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    Why feminism needs to happen: Why is it okay for a girl to have a male role model, but not for a boy to have a female role model? Why is it an insult for a man to be feminine? Why is a strong, determined male a good thing, but when a female is strong and determined, she's called a bitch.
    If you think men and women are ~perfectly equal~, you are so obviously ignorant, it's quite sad.
    Most of what you're describing is that culture encourages certain gender roles. Not that said roles are inherently "bad". Each has baggage; the strong, determined male is also supposed to "man up" and repress emotional influences. Nor is it an insult for a man to be "feminine" any more than it is for a woman to be "masculine"; the insult is in breaking the typical gender role, nothing more, and such issues exist pretty much everywhere and independent of what those roles mean.

    Yes, culture creates gender roles. It's like asking why girls = pink, and boys = blue. There's no real reason.

  17. #37
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    Who is close minded? You do realize without those young women who rebelled the Woman's place in the world would still be barefoot and pregnant in the Kitchen right? I'm not supporting what the women in the OP did and some feminists get crazy but if you think the world is and always has been equal you're incredibly close minded.
    Maybe the use of the word equal wasn't quite right, but I ask you, what is the problem with Men & Women having their roles in society and in the world? I'm not forcing women to remain in the kitchen, and be nothing more then housewives, but men and women are built (both mentally and physically) different, and a lot of the feminist movement is based on trying to bring equality where nature has made differentiation.

    I'm not saying (again) that women should be locked into kitchens, but I was just talking with our CEO the other week, about how rare it was in his day, to have women being the victim of abuse. Of course it happened, but where more women are now in a male dominated environment, combined with their desire to rebel and pressure from nations to force more women in the work place, there is a backlash and that is causing issues.

    I've used this example many times, as it is what is close to my heart, business. Last year a European Commission started to work on a law that would FORCE large companies, or companies that have earn a certain amount, or fit into a certain set of criteria, to have 50% of their board comprised of women. This is totally not acceptable to me, not because they're women, but because if a women in my company was good enough to be on the board, she already would be.

    I would needed to have fired several hard working men, with families from the company to ensure the board doesn't get to large, and this would've been just as sexist, as I had to do it because they're men.

    Women are not in a good position. As I've said, women do generally have less rights, but they have to earn them and that comes from growing up, sitting down at the table and talking. Running around with your tits out, trying to act like men, and being aggressive to the other sex, is not getting women anywhere, in a world still heavily dominated by Men in the top positions.
    Last edited by Hyve; 2013-02-12 at 07:40 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    Because women still get paid less than men, for doing the same job.
    Because women still get blamed for getting raped, rather than the rapist.
    Because women still get judged for their appearance and beauty, rather than their minds.
    Because women can only be one body type, according to the media.
    Because men think feminism doesn't need to be around anymore, that's why feminism still needs to be around. It's just women being 'oh it's so 1900's.'
    No, women are still oppressed, and if you think that they are not, you're the reason why women are fighting for equality.

    (and the video 'feminists' are extremists.)
    Is this a troll post or what? ALL those statements are the exact same way with men.

    Where are all the fat and ugly guys in commercials and media? Exactly... same place as fat and ugly women. Nowhere.
    If a fat woman gets media attention she is a brave and awesome girl but a fat and ugly man who gets media attention is
    an old disgusting pig and probably a pedophile.

    The sexism towards men are actually as big of a problem as the one towards women. It is just more socially accepted.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Lykke View Post
    Not sure, ask the people who started it?
    And not really. If a boy puts up a poster of say, Hilary Clinton in his room, for his role model, it's going to be 'a little weird'. But a girl putting up a poster of Barrack Obama? Totally fine, no weirdness at all.

    But you just confirmed my point... Being called gay (sadly) is still an insult. Even being confused for being gay, for some people, is an insult. A masculine girl isn't necessarily a lesbian, should could just be a tomboy. But any slight feminism in men, OH NO BAD.

    What defines a bitch then? Tell me a strong female, who at some point hasn't been called a bitch for fighting for what she believes in.
    Being called gay is insulting because its being identified as something you are not. Not because gay is somehow insulting to be, if you call a gay person gay they are like yes I am gay. People no matter what don't like to be identified as what they are not.

    Maybe at a young age girls can be tomboy's but usually its not necessarily a good thing.

    If you think all strong women are bitches that sounds like a personal problem.

  20. #40
    You do all realize Feminism is equality.
    It is not women are better than men.

    It's called feminism, because it's fighting for women's rights. Men have the rights, women just want the same ones.

    And of course, there are always extremists. And they should be treated as all extremists are, ignored.
    Last edited by Lykke; 2013-02-12 at 07:44 PM.

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