Modern Feminism - What's the deal?

[Unholyground]

My question is why aren't they in the kitchen making pies and pot roast?

[Spectral]

So in most countries men had the right to vote whole 10 to 20 years longer than women? What huge disparity that we have to pay for to this day... So what? Switzerland is one of the most misogynistic and least democratic countries in the world?

Quickly, shift those goalposts!

[Deleted]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't lump me in with the various others you disagree with. For me feminism has gone beyond just the female gender. It's a global effort to equalize all genders, at least for my friends and I. I as an individual am not these people you hate, and neither are those I socialize with. There are many different kinds of feminism, like people, we're not all the same.

Why, then, is it still "feminism"? If you recognize that it has gone beyond the female gender and into gender equality around the world, why does the name still imply female rights (and female rights alone)?

[Tinykong]

Women, minorities and disabled people still have a lot of problems and disadvantages.

This really just isn't true.

In fact, quite the opposite is true, imo. Too many special circumstances and situations have been created for special interest groups by government, that it's borderline reverse discrimination.

Private citizens and businesses are free to be bigots, racists, and sexists all they want, within the law, because they have a right to be. We, however, do not have the right not to be offended.

[semaphore]

Why, then, is it still "feminism"? If you recognize that it has gone beyond the female gender and into gender equality around the world, why does the name still imply female rights (and female rights alone)?

Why do people constantly whine about a name instead of the actual policies being proposed under that name?

[Elim Garak]

Universal suffrage.

First of all, Universal Suffrage has nothing to do with women at all, was implemented before feminism
Second, even Women's Suffrage has nothing to do with feminism, political groups who supported it called themselves Suffragettes, and their only concern was - voting for women.
Third, Women's Suffrage was granted BEFORE Universal Suffrage, in most countries that have it.

To make it clear:

There was a time when only rich men could vote.
Then rich women (wives of rich men) were allowed to vote
Then ALL men were allowed to vote.
Then EVERYONE was allowed to vote.

[Uennie]

Why, then, is it still "feminism"? If you recognize that it has gone beyond the female gender and into gender equality around the world, why does the name still imply female rights (and female rights alone)?

It's a fair question, and a good point. Honestly, for me because it's a label that is well-known and understood. I actually don't run into a lot of these pseudo-feminists with their violent or unreasonable tendencies, and a lot of the people I meet don't read into it beyond just wanting pure unadulterated gender equality. It hasn't been an issue that has come up in real life. I guess the people I meet aren't as harsh judges of character.

[Cybran]

Why do people constantly whine about a name instead of the actual policies being proposed under that name?

What policies are being proposed? Women getting free contraception? Women getting more child support? Women getting more quotas to push more men out of the workforce?

Give some positive examples that have lead to equality?

[Unholyground]

This really just isn't true.

In fact, quite the opposite is true, imo. Too many special circumstances and situations have been created for special interest groups by government, that it's borderline reverse discrimination.

Private citizens and businesses are free to be bigots, racists, and sexists all they want, within the law, because they have a right to be. We, however, do not have the right not to be offended.

Also Women are the majority now.

[Spectral]

First of all, Universal Suffrage has nothing to do with women at all

That's a pretty wild claim.

was implemented before feminism

Feminism, as a term, dates to the mid 1800s and was in widespread usage by the start of the 20th century. Put simply, you're wrong.

[Deleted]

Why are women not allowed to wear what they want?
Sometimes women feel good wearing those things.
But no, we're not allowed, unless of course we want to get raped.
(oh look. female oppression.)

Sometimes men feel good just looking at women who dressed nice.
Sometimes this men want to meet them.
But no, we are not allowed to look and approach this women, unless of course you want to be sued for sexual harassment and called a Misogynist.
(Oh look. Male oppression)

[semaphore]

Give some positive examples that have lead to equality?

Your wild and pathetically obvious goal post moving attempt aside, paternity leave for men.

Judging by the level of the posts here opening this thread is clearly a mistake.

[starlord]

Don't you think it's ironic that, while feminists are the first to pop up to decree that women make less than men because of workplace discrimination, or do worse in certain scientific fields because of gender bias, (the major unstated premise there being that there are no gender differences), they're also the first to pop up to say that boys preform worse than girls in school because of gender differences? No bias there, eh?

It's almost as if they have a sexist agenda that doesn't care about the truth at all.

its almost like people who hate women have an agenda against feminism, and will make wild claims to try and discredit them.

[Spectral]

But no, we are not allowed to look and approach this women, unless of course you want to be sued for sexual harassment and called a Misogynist.

Where in the world do people come up with shit like this?

[Elim Garak]

That's a pretty wild claim.

That's a fact. Universal suffrage (the original thing) was all about allowing all MEN to vote regardless of their wealth and property ownership.
Women's Suffrage allowed women to vote but with WEATLH requirement. It was granted before Universal one.
The thing you are thinking of - is Full Universal Suffrage, that allows everyone to vote regardless of anything.

Feminism, as a term, dates to the mid 1800s and was in widespread usage by the start of the 20th century. Put simply, you're wrong.

Oh please, that is called retconned history.
"Most western feminist historians assert that all movements that work to obtain women's rights should be considered feminist movements, even when they did not (or do not) apply the term to themselves"
I call this bs.

[Spectral]

That's a fact. Universal suffrage (the original thing) was all about allowing all MEN to vote regardless of their wealth and property ownership.
Women's Suffrage allowed women to vote but with WEATLH requirement. It was granted before Universal one.
The thing you are thinking of - is Full Universal Suffrage, that allows everyone to vote regardless of anything.

I'd think you were shitting me if I hadn't seen the circles people spin in to claim feminism has no use.

Oh please, that is called retconned history.
"Most western feminist historians assert that all movements that work to obtain women's rights should be considered feminist movements, even when they did not (or do not) apply the term to themselves"
I call this bs.

Oh, Oxford and Merriam Webster and their retcons.

The issue of rights for women first became prominent during the French and American revolutions in the late 18th century. In Britain it was not until the emergence of the suffragette movement in the late 19th century that there was significant political change.

Origin:

late 19th century: from French féminisme

[Cybran]

Your wild and pathetically obvious goal post moving attempt aside, paternity leave for men.

Judging by the level of the posts here opening this thread is clearly a mistake.

Paternity leave is the time a father takes off work at the birth or adoption of a child. This kind of leave is rarely paid.

We are off to an amazing start.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12949382

A survey of 1,300 firms by the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) showed that over half believed giving extra paternity leave to fathers would be detrimental.

The BCC said the paternity leave rules, coming into force at the same time as the phasing out of the default retirement age, were too much to cope with.

4/10 for the effort, though. Burdening the business by more handouts and entitlements. Is that all Feminism can do?

[Deleted]

Why do people constantly whine about a name instead of the actual policies being proposed under that name?

Because I feel the name is extremely misleading and dated. Gender equality - there's even a wikipedia article on a way better name for the entire movement!

But I guess the hardcore feminists are (at heart) way too conservative to allow such change.

[Deleted]

Why do people constantly whine about a name instead of the actual policies being proposed under that name?

Because much of the policies are batshit insane. Like gender quotas.

[Elim Garak]

I'd think you were shitting me if I hadn't seen the circles people spin in to claim feminism has no use.

Why so ignorant? You have the internet!

I'm not talking about uselessness of feminism. I was just giving you a history lesson about Universal Suffrage.

Oh, Oxford and Merriam Webster and their retcons.

Ok let's consult your "reliable" authority sources:

"First Known Use of FEMINISM

1895"

My sources tell me this:

"The first system to explicitly claim to use universal suffrage was France which is generally recognized as the first national system to abolish all property requirements for voting. Republican France first instituted universal male suffrage in 1792."

"The first women's suffrage was granted in Corsica in 1755 and lasted until 1769"