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  1. #101
    Lachtobi too, nice I'm Impatientus@Causality. Maybe we can get Draenor higher in the progression charts, lol

  2. #102
    I don't get why this is a big deal. Why don't you just glyph it and end the argument?

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinna View Post
    I don't get why this is a big deal. Why don't you just glyph it and end the argument?
    Because glyphing it causes the target damage boost to drop to 0, thus defeating the reason of using it (apart from the threat transfer which isn't really a thing with the current aggro mechanics of the tanks)

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Impa View Post
    Because glyphing it causes the target damage boost to drop to 0, thus defeating the reason of using it (apart from the threat transfer which isn't really a thing with the current aggro mechanics of the tanks)
    Darnit, someone's sarcasm detector appears to be broken!

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinna View Post
    Darnit, someone's sarcasm detector appears to be broken!
    *sigh* any good service around?

  6. #106
    anyone knows addon which reports bonus damage from ToT after whole fight? Trickortreat reports damage, but after every ToT, not as a sum after the whole fight is over/combat wears off...any tips?

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Impa View Post
    That would mean that someone is doing 244k dps for at least 6 seconds, every 30 seconds. Feng being as close as you can get to a Patchwerk fight, and even that becomes a bit sketchy with moving in and out of shields, epicenters, flame sparks etc, it would mean you can't really use ToT on CD, but actually have to time it. Which implies an even higher burst than 244k for 6 seconds to maintain that average.

    All in all, I'm not inclined to call 220k a realistic TOT average gain, and the value probably is somewhere around or south of 100k, but happy to be proven wrong with logs. Either way, I wasn't disputing the fact that every little helps when it comes to progression fights or hard beserk timers on farm bosses, but rather the clunkiness of ToT, as it currently stands, and it's irrelevance on regular farm bosses with no hard enrage issues.

    To bottom line it, I don't think that 220k average is a realistic number, unless the ToT receiver has like 250k dps. I'd speculate the overall gain is probably around 3-4% dps, while costing you around 1%, which is somewhat in line with what Shadowcraft suggests.

    Happy to be proven wrong via logs though, and I can share my own logs.

    Merged; one post was eaten by the spam filter, sorry for the slight redundancy - Mugajak

    Cheers for adding it back, was a bit pissed I lost it so just re-posted a 2 line reply
    250k dps no, a big burst yes, if you can sync it with your other dps popping their big CD's and bursts (execute, chaos wave, etc) you can see those numbers more often enough.

  8. #108
    Tricks is one of the only things we bring to a raid that no other class can, why would we ever want to modify it? Smart raid leaders realize the benifit TotT provides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tataracek View Post
    anyone knows addon which reports bonus damage from ToT after whole fight? Trickortreat reports damage, but after every ToT, not as a sum after the whole fight is over/combat wears off...any tips?
    ^bump

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    Tricks is one of the only things we bring to a raid that no other class can, why would we ever want to modify it? Smart raid leaders realize the benifit TotT provides.



    ^bump
    Because its not really bringing anything. Its roughly a 3% dps gain to one person costing you 30 energy a minute. 3% is less than the dps difference between a lot of class/specs, so they gain the same thing by just taking a better class over some one.

    Are you counting tiger's fury as utility brought to the raid by a feral? Probably not. Single target short duration buffs aren't really adding utility and really are just upping one person's personal dps contribution.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    ^bump
    I use Raeli's Spell Announcer: http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/rsa

    Comes with a bunch of other spells with other settings, really customisable and incredibly user friendly.
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  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by mongoose6 View Post
    Tricks is one of the only things we bring to a raid that no other class can, why would we ever want to modify it? Smart raid leaders realize the benifit TotT provides.



    ^bump
    *giggles* so you need to be a "smart raid leader" to realize a possible 0.1 % dps increase for your raid? made my day.

    Successfully leading a raid is perfectionism, but not to this extend.

    The only time a raid leader should care if the rogue use TotT is when he has to redirect aggro, like at Wind Lord HC in Heart of Fear.
    Last edited by Bluegirl91; 2013-03-05 at 12:29 AM.

  12. #112
    Why do you need to redirect aggro on windlord in HoF? Your tank has a godly amount of vengeance and the slightest hit of anything will do so much more threat than any AE. The threat component is pretty damn useless.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegirl91 View Post
    *giggles* so you need to be a "smart raid leader" to realize a possible 0.1 % dps increase for your raid? made my day.

    Successfully leading a raid is perfectionism, but not to this extend.

    The only time a raid leader should care if the rogue use TotT is when he has to redirect aggro, like at Wind Lord HC in Heart of Fear.
    Allow me to rephrase, a smart raid leader will realize the while TotT damage doesn't show on recount as the rogue's damage, it should still be counted as a dps contribution by the rogue. I should have seperated those two thoughts in my post.

    And even if its only a small contribution, its still something we can bring that other's cannot and comes in very handy on fight's that require burn. Our shadow priest was having trouble downing her last orb on elegon until I started saving TotT for that particular orb. TotT had a direct impact on our success on that fight.

  14. #114
    What do you mean bringing something others do not? Sure they do, anyone doing 3% more dps is bringing that. A warlock brings complete add domination on elegon. You aren't bring a single thing no one else can bring.

  15. #115
    Who can you bring to temporarily increase that warlocks add domination?

    I'm not trying to say that you should bring a rogue specifically for TotT, I'm just saying that TotT damage needs to factored into the rogue's overall damage contribution when making the decision of who to bring.

    As far as adding utility, TotT is good for a large variety of encounters when it is used correctly.
    Spirit Kings, TotT the ranged dps assigned to burn the shadow skulls when they pop
    Garalon, TotT your soak buddy when the hard to reach front leg pops to burn it down faster
    Empress, TotT the highest dps (if not you) when the add phase begins to burn your focus add down faster

    TotT isn't going to make or break most encounters, but it sure as hell can make short burns much easier.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Sesshou View Post
    What do you mean bringing something others do not? Sure they do, anyone doing 3% more dps is bringing that. A warlock brings complete add domination on elegon. You aren't bring a single thing no one else can bring.
    Sadly true =( it is damage, but it's far from unique. I mean, you could toss that Tricks on the seed-spamming warlock, but that's still less of a gain than another warlock or blood DK. Given certain setups, I could see it as an occasionally valuable DPS tool to shift burst (holding it for times when more burst is needed, and someone else does that burst well, like a warlock on Elegon or that one person in a ten who can't quite get the charge down) - but 99% of these times, you're just overcompensating for a tactical error or someone else's grievous mistakes; it's great that we can, but so can any ranged DPS that finisher their add first (not even touching the cleave tactics).

  17. #117
    If it is an overcompensation, I still think its a rogue's duty to use it and use it wisely even if it's a slight personal loss of dps. And a rogue shouldn't be penalized for having lower recount/skada numbers if they are using TotT. The reverse can be said for the rogue who does NOT use it.

    Even as energy starved assassination, all you really need to do is pool an extra little bit of energy sometimes so you can get two mutilates while still casting TotT during the envenom buff. The only thing I would change about it is to provide the target with a percent crit buff instead of a flat damage buff, that way it would synergize a bit with HAT (Not that its needed, it would just make more sense IMO)

  18. #118
    I really wouldn't categorize it as duty, since the boost it provides is minimal and by no means raid saving. This, together with the energy cost and not being a self-buff means I'll always wish we had a better tool at our disposal.

    Yes, it would be nice if recount would record that damage as ours, but then we'd be miles behind shamans and other raidbuff heavy classes.

    At the end of the day, if blizz wanted the damage to be counted as ours, it would be a self buff. It isn't, so it's more or less case closed.

    And sadly, our raid spots and blizz' dps tuning are tied to the damage we inflict directly.

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