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  1. #201
    I am Murloc! cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Botter View Post
    Saying the budget was ever balanced is a lie. The debt didn't go down during Clinton nor was the deficit ever erased. Are you sure you even know what a deficit is? According to your source "A deficit occurs when the government takes in less money than it spends in a given year." So to say we had a surplus would be to suggest that Clinton spent less money than he took in. Which is simply a lie. At no point was the deficit gone, so at no point could there have ever been a surplus under Clinton.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 01:21 AM ----------



    Stop it. You will confuse him with facts and logic. he doesn't want to hear how Clinton or however many people did it, cooked the books to make them look better.
    Then try this if you don't believe the last piece of fact I offered. I'm sorry you don't understand the difference between how the government calculates a budget surplus, but it's there regardless. Perhaps you're the one that doesn't want to admit when someone you don't like did something good, eh? I'll keep posting more facts to try and help you two understand how it works, but there is only so much I can do before your ignorance overcomes my patience.
    The less you know, the more you believe.


    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hate, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Botter View Post
    Obama could have and should have let all of the Bush tax cuts expire. But he didn't.

    BTW, I got a $600 check.....lol idk why my gf at the time got $300 and another friend got $300.
    Oh, I agree he should have. Even people who try to shrug blame away from Bush, clearly admit there was no surplus to give a tax cut when Bush gave it. It all goes on the debt and costs a lot more than cell phones...
    Go Hawks!!!!

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Jim Siegal - CEO of Costco, the 2nd largest retailer in America.

    Pay for the average worker is $17 an hour at Costco

    They get FULL MEDICAL BENEFITS

    The CEO willingly only gets paid under $500k a year, more than enough to live happily and can retire but doesn't. The rest goes right into his company and his employees...

    The CEO is a staunch liberal and fully supported Obamacare.

    I repeat - the SECOND LARGEST RETAILER IN AMERICA.

    Want to know why they work their asses off there and motivates them? BECAUSE THEY'RE PAID WELL AND KEPT HEALTHY!!! Who in their right mind wouldn't want to loose that!

    Here's a tip human beings seem to have forgotten... if you feed a starving dog, that dog becomes loyal to you. Sure, some dogs may gain weight, and may expect a hand-out every now and again - but when it comes to defending his master, making the family happy and their home (which is their job), they will maul ANYBODY who gets in his way. This also applies to humans... but people just hear of the 1-3 bad apples who abuse wellfare for their own ends and think the entire human race is now corrupt.

    Also - name me ONE CEO who is a lazy eff. They can retire 10x over right now, and yet they stay working for some reason. Why do you think that is? :P They can lay back and retire 10 generations of their family - but they don't. They willingly enter their meetings and stress of their work and stay on it. Why is that?
    Costco cheated America out of millions of dollars in tax money
    this year they paid their share holders billions of dollars in dividends in Dec that they have always paid in Jan and why did they pay the dividends in Dec and not Jan this year? it was so they can avoid paying taxes at the higher rate in 2013
    and the hypocrite owner supported the Obama tax increase
    Last edited by Vyxn; 2013-02-13 at 06:34 AM.

  4. #204
    I am Murloc! cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    Costco cheated America out of millions of dollars in tax money
    this year they paid their share holders billions of dollars in dividends in Dec that they have always paid in Jan and why did they pay the dividends in Dec and not Jan this year? it was so they can avoid paying taxes at the higher rate on 2013
    and the hypocrite owner supported the Obama tax increase
    I don't think it was hypocritical at all to do precisely what Costco did - it was smart business. He wasn't leaving the country, or claiming Columbian citizenship, he was simply making a sound business decision for his shareholders (and I fully support Obama). Next year he'll pay more taxes.
    The less you know, the more you believe.


    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hate, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    Costco cheated America out of millions of dollars in tax money
    this year they paid their share holders billions of dollars in dividends in Dec that they have always paid in Jan and why did they pay the dividends in Dec and not Jan this year? it was so they can avoid paying taxes at the higher rate on 2013
    and the hypocrite owner supported the Obama tax increase
    Isn't that free market? Y/N?

  6. #206
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxi View Post
    I wonder if he's going to swap them out with Academi mercenaries.
    If stability there is a long term goal, then we're gonna have to. To be frank, those Afghani troops are glorified boy scouts. We've done everything we can to turn them in to a modern fighting force, but we just can't seem to make them competent. We had the same issue in Iraq. I don't know what it is about those people. You'll hear a few inspirational stories here and there like the female helicopter pilots we recently sent back, but overwhelmingly you'll just hear about how the Afghani troops are generally unmotivated and have a strong aversion to hard work.

    I don't understand what's wrong with them. It's not our training program that's the problem. We've created some astounding militaries in the past. Look at South Korea, they have some fantastic soldiers. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because the Afghanis have no sense of unity or national pride, so their soldiers just don't care.

  7. #207
    I am Murloc! cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    More "Clinton Surplus" myth being swung around, now with more factcheck.org!
    Since you'll only accept "facts" from Neo-con sources, here you go.
    The less you know, the more you believe.


    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hate, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

  8. #208
    Scarab Lord Zhangfei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    If stability there is a long term goal, then we're gonna have to. To be frank, those Afghani troops are glorified boy scouts. We've done everything we can to turn them in to a modern fighting force, but we just can't seem to make them competent. We had the same issue in Iraq. I don't know what it is about those people. You'll hear a few inspirational stories here and there like the female helicopter pilots we recently sent back, but overwhelmingly you'll just hear about how the Afghani troops are generally unmotivated and have a strong aversion to hard work.

    I don't understand what's wrong with them. It's not our training program that's the problem. We've created some astounding militaries in the past. Look at South Korea, they have some fantastic soldiers. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say it's because the Afghanis have no sense of unity or national pride, so their soldiers just don't care.
    It's the last part. From the monographs I've read of the region it's the extensive and repeated warfare that's become part of their daily lives. Many are too emotionally and culturally drained, with little to no connection to the force they're fighting for. The national ideal has little meaning to the majority. Then you have people associating every ill with "advanced" armies like the old USSR and USA supporting tinpot dictators.

    It's absolutely no surprise to me that they're so very tired of all of this and have zero meaningful connection to the US forces. This generation never will.
    In fact as far as I'm aware the UK is the only european nation that outright bans guns for civilians.
    Shotguns I'll give you (provided you're allowed 12 and larger gauges... because I mean... come on...) but not .22s.
    This is why people ban guns. Gun supporters don't know what guns are.

  9. #209
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    I'd rather win the 'first to have a self sustaining colony off this planet' competition. :P
    Hey, I'm right there with ya. That'd be my #1 priority if I was in charge.

    It'd really help if we could find another species in space. One we didn't trust. Right now, the entire military interest in space amounts to "how can we use this to spy/drop things on people?"

    We need orbital defense platforms to protect against Covenant attacks. Plus a forward base on Mars to fight the plethora of evil things that live there.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 06:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhangfei View Post
    It's the last part. From the monographs I've read of the region it's the extensive and repeated warfare that's become part of their daily lives. Many are too emotionally and culturally drained, with little to no connection to the force they're fighting for. The national ideal has little meaning to the majority. Then you have people associating every ill with "advanced" armies like the old USSR and USA supporting tinpot dictators.

    It's absolutely no surprise to me that they're so very tired of all of this and have zero meaningful connection to the US forces. This generation never will.
    That is an excellent analysis of the situation. I'm pretty sure you're on to something there.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    I don't think it was hypocritical at all to do precisely what Costco did - it was smart business. He wasn't leaving the country, or claiming Columbian citizenship, he was simply making a sound business decision for his shareholders (and I fully support Obama). Next year he'll pay more taxes.


    I'm sorry my bad i forgot about the two different sets of rules in the unwritten liberal hand book
    when a liberal does it it is just good business practices, but if a conservative does it he is just being a greedy evil capitalist that is avoiding paying his fair share

    You liberals really need to write these rules down and hand them out so us conservatives wont keep making the same mistake

  11. #211
    Warchief Sand Person's Avatar
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    for those asking and hoping that minimum wage to go up needs a lesson in economics. with the wages going up, so will everything else. the only thing that will come out of raising the minimum wage is that the value of the US dollar will drop.

  12. #212
    I am Murloc! cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    I'm sorry my bad i forgot about the two different sets of rules in the unwritten liberal hand book
    when a liberal does it it is just good business practices, but if a conservative does it he is just being a greedy evil capitalist that is avoiding paying his fair share

    You liberals really need to write these rules down and hand them out so us conservatives wont keep making the same mistake
    I haven't dinged any business person for sound business decisions, including avoiding taxes next year. Not sure why you're resorting to personal attacks here, unless you realize you're wrong and have no further points to make. If you do, please point out where I called any conservative a greedy evil capitalist.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 06:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by beefchorizo View Post
    for those asking and hoping that minimum wage to go up needs a lesson in economics. with the wages going up, so will everything else. the only thing that will come out of raising the minimum wage is that the value of the US dollar will drop.
    We covered this already. Read the whole thread before you comment, please.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 06:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    Hey, I'm right there with ya. That'd be my #1 priority if I was in charge.

    It'd really help if we could find another species in space. One we didn't trust. Right now, the entire military interest in space amounts to "how can we use this to spy/drop things on people?"

    We need orbital defense platforms to protect against Covenant attacks. Plus a forward base on Mars to fight the plethora of evil things that live there.
    Yes! Absolutely agree.
    The less you know, the more you believe.


    Actually, Mr. Lennon, I CAN imagine a world with no hate, religion, war, or violence.
    I can also imagine attacking such a world, because they would never see it coming.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Botter View Post
    Placing blame where blame is rightfully due seems to be lost with many people these days. People seem to want to blame whoever they don't agree with.

    Repealing Glass-Stegal acts 20 and 32 led to banks being able to "regulate" themselves, and we see how well that turned out.

    And the Fair Housing Act, which leads predatory lending companies to hand out mortgages to people they know couldn't afford them because the government was back part and all of some loans defaulted on. But that ended in late 07' or early 08' I believe and we all know what happened to housing after that.

    If you can't place blame on a party or person that you agree with when they have done wrong, then I feel sorry for you.
    Agreed. The banks tried to offer my mother (an RN) a $1 million dollar loan for a house.
    Quote Originally Posted by Standsinfire View Post
    Me: whyumad* fixed. Seriously though, it's only because they rapin' eveerbody in here and I don't want you to be snatched out yo' windows.
    Quote Originally Posted by noepeen View Post
    If that were my dog, I'd Hulk Smash the fuck out of that raccoon.
    Or I'd shit my pants.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by beefchorizo View Post
    for those asking and hoping that minimum wage to go up needs a lesson in economics. with the wages going up, so will everything else. the only thing that will come out of raising the minimum wage is that the value of the US dollar will drop.
    First the Conservatives say "People need to learn economics: Increase taxes and companies fire people to make up the cost. They can't increasing prices because they want to stay competitive!"

    Now Conservatives are saying "People need to learn economics: Increase minimum wage and companies will increase prices to make up the cost!"

    For EFF sakes - what the Hell one is it!? Do they fire employees or do they increase prices! >_< Is it whatever one leeches onto the current GoP talking point!?
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    First the Conservatives say "People need to learn economics: Increase taxes and companies fire people to make up the cost. They can't increasing prices because they want to stay competitive!"

    Now Conservatives are saying "People need to learn economics: Increase minimum wage and companies will increase prices to make up the cost!"

    For EFF sakes - what the Hell one is it!? Do they fire employees or do they increase prices! >_< Is it whatever one leeches onto the current GoP talking point!?
    It's whatever one fits their incredibly limited view of the world. Most people educated in economics will know that it's an extremely complicated system and raising the minimum wage will have very little effect overall, and that prices are set by a much more complicated set of variables than whatever the magic hate-Obama buzz word of the day is on Fox News.
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZK203 View Post
    Just have a sig that says "I'm Batman."

  16. #216
    Keep digging that hole Vyxn. You are doing a good job at making yourself look bad.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Botter View Post
    Unless he plans on increasing spending on education, increase funding to NASA, do something sensible about the out of control military budget (unless he plans to continue the fear mongering to keep everyone scared), legalize marijuana or just stop the senseless war on drugs altogether, spend on infrastructure, has a sensible plan to cut spending, do something about the mental health issue we have, and really do something about healthcare. Then it is all just more of the same as any other president. No real change, just band-aids because they don't have guts to make changes we really need.
    I like this guy.

    Stoked about the minimum wage raise.
    edit: I think it's silly to say such a raise would cause inflation. What kind of demographic do you think works at minimum wage? Do you really think raising their wages by one dollar per hour could possibly have that much of an effect? So many other factors are involved..
    Last edited by Felshen; 2013-02-13 at 07:18 AM.

  18. #218
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...g-state-union/


    Saw people calling him a liar....

    Also, on the whole.. "He raised the debt even more" nonsense I've seen spouted out. He did not spend any extra money, the fact is, that money was spent when he got into office, he just directed it to where it went. Bush signed in a stimulus package that Obama got "credit" for, then teh Republican Propaganda machine ended up saying Obama signed it in and that the companies that got bailed out should have went under and that ALL of the money went to their executives and so on.
    You wouldn't believe the lies that Obama haters spit out...
    Actually, you would, because there are several in this thread that are blind to facts and only want to spit out nonsensical lies.
    Facts on how spending occurs.


    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 01:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    yes when the majority of professor are liberals
    My current history teacher is a Conservative. A lot of professors are. A friend of mine had a Government teacher who was a Conservative and he spouted off anti-Obama garbage and I was easily able to tell him how wrong he was with FACTS.
    Many friends of mine spout off the same things you do, and I provided the facts, along with other people providing said facts, but the majority of her friends are Conservatives and they called our facts outright lies. Even though we had proof backing them up.

    liming Obama to one term would have helped the economy
    Just take the latest GDP we are going backwards
    Romney was the opposing candidate, and I have never seen a bigger idiot or liar outside of George Bush.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 01:37 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Botter View Post
    Obama could have and should have let all of the Bush tax cuts expire. But he didn't.

    BTW, I got a $600 check.....lol idk why my gf at the time got $300 and another friend got $300.

    Edit: Im out for the night gents. Was a great debate but I'm too sleepy, been up for 22 hours now.
    Obama was promised that the Republicans would do EVERYTHING in their power to put a halt to ANYTHING he tried to do if he let them expire.
    Good memory on that part, you leave out a lot of things when you debate.

    Here is the last thing, since someone else mentioned it and didn't pull up the site:
    http://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the...under-clinton/
    Last edited by Demonakat; 2013-02-13 at 07:44 AM.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    As far as I'm concerned it should be simple. You should earn what you deserve. Someone fresh out of High School, flipping burgers, doesn't deserve $9/hour. If they want more money then they should go to college, or a trade school, or (God forbid) work their way up.
    If you look at real world examples, almost universally, the higher the wages of the country the better the overall standard of living in that country. Look at all country's with low wages, guess what, they are all shit holes.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    As far as I'm concerned it should be simple. You should earn what you deserve. Someone fresh out of High School, flipping burgers, doesn't deserve $9/hour. If they want more money then they should go to college, or a trade school, or (God forbid) work their way up.
    When he's broke, starving and needs to feed his ailing parent - don't blame me if he breaks into your home and steal things because he can't afford anything - nevermind a decent education to better himself.

    Your quote reminds me of a discworld quote - where a cult leader told his brethren "perhaps we should only allow the deserving to own showy coaches". The quote goes "The crowd mentally divided everybody they knew into the deserving, and the undeserving, and placed themselves on the appropriate side."

    Way for you to be the arbiter of somebody's "deserving" to being able to eat food or not.

    If nobody can afford to live - then who will flip your burgers then? It's easy to say - until you need their services. When nobody wants to mow your lawn, or clean your home, or wash your car, or stock your groceries, or keep your groceries FRESH, or file your cable internet complaint to the right source, ect...
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

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