View Poll Results: Should Garrosh Kill Thrall?

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  • Yes Garrosh Should Kill Thrall

    79 32.92%
  • No Thrall Should Live

    161 67.08%
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  1. #101
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Anyway, enough, this kind of thread has nothing good coming from it, and I'd sooner cut open a chilli pepper and put the seeds in my eyes then carry on this for now.

    and Constellation, thanks, your my fav elf on the threads, I'm totally raising a beer to you in a pandaren bar somewhere.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-02-13 at 06:00 AM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    No weaknesses? have you ever played the 4.1 storyline?
    4.2. There's a difference between saying a character has a weakness and showing it. "Show, don't tell" is a fundamental aspect of storytelling; if Thrall's anger actually caused him to lash out at someone and cause a personal rift, a real consequence, would make that weakness actually feel substantial.

    4.2 says he's angry, he's patient, he has desires and he has doubts. Do these flaws affect the direction of the plot? If he weren't patient, doubtful, angry or distracted by his desires, would Cataclysm had gone in a different direction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    keep telling yourself that, you won't believe anything else.
    ehehehe, pot kettle black
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  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by The Ogdru Jahad View Post
    If Thrall died you would hear the cry of a thousand fanboys. Blizzard would NEVER kill Thrall. He is their child. They have had him since the beginning pretty much. Not to mention they've gone too far to make him Jesus to kill him off for real.
    Thrall has fans. Sylvanas has fanboys.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 06:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    and Constellation, thanks your my fav elf on the threads.
    Just stating how I feel. I like Thrall. He's my fave Orc by far and thats because he's an Orc with heart, strength, conviction and wisdom.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    She was using the Focusing Iris, one of the Blue Dragonflight's most powerful (if not the most powerful) artifacts to enhance her power.
    And that, ladies in gentlemen, is what we call 'Deus Ex Machina.'
    Back to square one.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Constellation View Post
    Thrall has fans. Sylvanas has fanboys.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 06:00 AM ----------

    Just stating how I feel. I like Thrall. He's my fave Orc by far and thats because he's an Orc with heart, strength, conviction and wisdom.
    And the story would just feel stagnant and yet another boring, generic lord of the rings rip offs without characters like Thrall or Anduin to make it more interesting.

    Anyway, choo for now.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    And the story would just feel stagnant and yet another boring, generic lord of the rings rip offs without characters like Thrall or Anduin to make it more interesting.

    Anyway, choo for now.
    and then trassk was a train
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  7. #107
    Legendary! Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    She was using the Focusing Iris, one of the Blue Dragonflight's most powerful (if not the most powerful) artifacts to enhance her power.
    And the superman Thrall was using the dragon soul when he helped kill deathwing.
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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    And that, ladies in gentlemen, is what we call 'Deus Ex Machina.'
    Back to square one.
    How is that deus ex machina? Deus ex machina would be if the ghost of arthas appeared out of nowhere and convinced Jaina not to do it, or if a naaru descended from the heavens and soothed her mind. Using an established magical artifact to become more powerful is not deus ex machina.

  9. #109
    "Winter is coming."

    "Everyone can die."

  10. #110
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    Other then have some screen time in Cata, what makes everyone think Thrall is SOOO powerful? He HELPED kill deathwing with the dragon soul, and it took him 3 shots to weaken deathwing enough. He had HELP holding the world together. hes powerful, but not a marry sue. No one had a problem with Thrall until cata, and the only thing he did in cata was have some screen time. Make sure you let Blizzard know that you dont want any characters to do anything to advance the story in any way from now on okay?
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  11. #111
    Herald of the Titans Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    No weaknesses? have you ever played the 4.1 storyline?
    Haha, you think him getting a little insecure is a big weakness? Oh please. Come back to me when he gets the shit beat out of him/tortured/utterly defeated and manipulated and then has to make a meaningful choice that doesn't really have a happy outcome. So far he's had none of that.

    Hell, he didn't even bother to keep his own Horde in check while he was leader. At least Garrosh tried to be in control of the situation and gets the respect and fear he deserves (see how he handles Sylvanas vs. Thrall's handling [or rather, not handling] of her bullshit) even if he is (intentionally) an unlikable character; at least he was ACTIVE and interesting, and although he's a warmonger he still has (or had, until MoP when they made him into a flat KILL ERRTHANG character) some redeeming qualities (reluctance to use LK's methods to prop up Sylvanas, not approving of the plague, not approving of destroying peaceful Druid schools).

    His writing is pure shit. FACT. Cataclysm showed us all they can't be balanced and write interesting characters anymore. Tyrande's sudden retardation and Varian's sudden infinite wisdom, aswell as Jaina's going off the deepend but also being completely fucking passive right up until she is betrayed for the THIRD TIME all also show how bad they are at developing the characters in this game.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-02-13 at 06:18 AM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Haha, you think him getting a little insecure is a big weakness? Oh please. Come back to me when he gets the shit beat out of him/tortured/utterly defeated and manipulated and then has to make a meaningful choice that doesn't really have a happy outcome. So far he's had none of that.

    Hell, he didn't even bother to keep his own Horde in check while he was leader. At least Garrosh tried to be in control of the situation and gets the respect and fear he deserves (see how he handles Sylvanas vs. Thrall's handling [or rather, not handling] of her bullshit) even if he is (intentionally) an unlikable character; at least he's ACTIVE and interesting right now, and although he's a warmonger he still has (or had, until MoP when they made him into a flat KILL ERRTHANG character) some redeeming qualities (reluctance to use LK's methods to prop up Sylvanas, not approving of the plague, not approving of destroying peaceful Druid schools).

    His writing is pure shit. FACT. Cataclysm showed us all they can't be balanced and fair with regards to lore characters.
    You mean like when he was a slave? Oh did you forget about that? Thrall has had plenty of character development in the past. He is an interesting character. Read the books not the in game events. I admit most lore is awful when seen inside the game. Look at MoP though. The writing and presentation is superb in game. 5.1 was amazing imo.
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  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Haha, you think him getting a little insecure is a big weakness? Oh please. Come back to me when he gets the shit beat out of him/tortured/utterly defeated and manipulated and then has to make a meaningful choice that doesn't really have a happy outcome. So far he's had none of that.

    Hell, he didn't even bother to keep his own Horde in check while he was leader. At least Garrosh tried to be in control of the situation and gets the respect and fear he deserves (see how he handles Sylvanas vs. Thrall's handling [or rather, not handling] of her bullshit) even if he is (intentionally) an unlikable character; at least he's ACTIVE and interesting right now, and although he's a warmonger he still has (or had, until MoP when they made him into a flat KILL ERRTHANG character) some redeeming qualities (reluctance to use LK's methods to prop up Sylvanas, not approving of the plague, not approving of destroying peaceful Druid schools).

    His writing is pure shit. FACT. Cataclysm showed us all they can't be balanced and fair with regards to lore characters.
    I agree on the aspect of 4.2. Suddenly bringing up flaws that he had never demonstrated in game before and then sweeping them under the rug as you and Aggra help him master them within the same questline, in such an unsubtle way, does not a flawed character make. (There's a saying in writing, 'show don't tell.' Elemental bonds was very much the latter.)

    That doesn't make Thrall a bad character in and of itself. The novels, especially when Golden is at the helm, do a much better job with him. But when people turn to 4.2 as evidence that he has flaws I laugh.

    Anyway I don't think that Thrall should die just because people, myself included, didn't care much for him in Cata. But on the other end, people who think that by no means he could ever be killed off without ruining the story are leaning into the fanboy camp as well. Characters shouldn't be killed off at random or for no reason, but that doesn't mean they should NEVER die.
    Last edited by Malzra; 2013-02-13 at 06:20 AM.

  14. #114
    Herald of the Titans Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    You mean like when he was a slave? Oh did you forget about that? Thrall has had plenty of character development in the past. He is an interesting character. Read the books not the in game events. I admit most lore is awful when seen inside the game. Look at MoP though. The writing and presentation is superb in game. 5.1 was amazing imo.
    Tell you what, shall we compare him to Bolvar?

    Let's see...

    He's a powerful warrior and utterly devoted to his king and kingdom; vowing to protect the young Anduin until he can take the throne.
    Yet he failed in his duty, as he was manipulated by Onyxia and allowed Anduin to be captured by her.
    He is sent on the Northrend campaign and is ambushed at the Wrathgate by Putress; who "kills" him with the plague.
    His body is then destroyed beyond recognition by the dragon fire.
    The Lich King retrieves his body, still alive, so that he can torture him extensively.
    By the power of the light, he manages not to break.
    When he's saved and Arthas is killed, knowing there's no place for him in the world anymore he makes the ultimate sacrifice and allows himself to be locked in eternal mental battle with Ner'zhul in an effort to keep the Scourge in check; yet neither him nor us knows how long he'll be able to do that for.

    Now what did Thrall go through exactly? Oh he was held as a prisoner once and abused a bit by his overlord, then in 4.2 he got a bit insecure. Then he saved the world and settled down to make a family. Yeah fantastic, tons of weaknesses and strife there.

  15. #115
    Legendary! Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Tell you what, shall we compare him to Bolvar?

    Let's see...

    He's a powerful warrior and utterly devoted to his king and kingdom; vowing to protect the young Anduin until he can take the throne.
    Yet he failed in his duty, as he was manipulated by Onyxia and allowed Anduin to be captured by her.
    He is sent on the Northrend campaign and is ambushed at the Wrathgate by Putress; who "kills" him with the plague.
    His body is then destroyed beyond recognition by the dragon fire.
    The Lich King retrieves his body, still alive, so that he can torture him extensively.
    By the power of the light, he manages not to break.
    When he's saved and Arthas is killed, knowing there's no place for him in the world anymore he makes the ultimate sacrifice and allows himself to be locked in eternal mental battle with Ner'zhul in an effort to keep the Scourge in check; yet neither him nor us knows how long he'll be able to do that for.

    Now what did Thrall go through exactly? Oh he was held as a prisoner once and abused a bit by his overlord, then in 4.2 he got a bit insecure. Then he saved the world and settled down to make a family. Yeah fantastic, tons of weaknesses and strife there.
    Look, im not saying that Thrall is the best character ever, but there are many characters that are far worse that need to "die" before thrall does. Look at how badly written Garrosh is. In cata he got mad at a gerneral fro killing kids and killed him. In MoP he would do anything to win including eating children for power. You know he would. Garrosh is probably dying now though, so maybe thats a bad example.
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  16. #116
    Ive said this before that i definitely believe Garrosh or one of his henchmen is gonna try to assassinate thrall but they will fail and that aggra will die in the crossfire

    I actually see a quest where garrosh sends you to do the job but you get talked out of it by thrall then the assassins pop out and aggra comes out to save thrall and gets killed thus making thrall a bit pissed

    As for thrall dieing nope not gonna happen chris metzen wants him back as warchief and trust me he will be that again

  17. #117
    Herald of the Titans Valarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Look, im not saying that Thrall is the best character ever, but there are many characters that are far worse that need to "die" before thrall does. Look at how badly written Garrosh is. In cata he got mad at a gerneral fro killing kids and killed him. In MoP he would do anything to win including eating children for power. You know he would. Garrosh is probably dying now though, so maybe thats a bad example.
    Garrosh is being written poorly now specifically to make us hate him enough that we either wont care or will be glad when we finally kill him. (well, that, and the writing has been awful through and through in terms of leader development. Tyrande taking advice on patience from *Varian*? Really?)

    During Cata though he had plenty of interesting bits; showing resolve as a leader and a military man by threatening Sylvanas for her usage of plague, Val'kyr and what he deems "disgusting" tactics, aswell as punishing his underlings for killing peaceful bystanders and children and trying to honour some sort of code in war, aswell as showing how indelicate and incompetent he is with diplomacy/racial relations by alienating the Elves and Trolls to the point where they begin plotting against him. He also showed initiative by pushing further for resources and building Horde technology by recruiting the Goblins.

    Thrall did none of those things. There was no conflict where there should have been (see: Sylvanas' incompetence with Putress and Varimathras, the Blood Elves' hostility towards Naaru and stealing of power) Nor did he ever display any sort of diplomatic skill (I mean really, bringing Garrosh and walking into a meeting with Varian?). He merely "existed" until he was elevated to god status in Cata. Up until then you could have had a plank of wood as Warchief, it literally would not have made a difference to the story.
    Last edited by Valarius; 2013-02-13 at 07:34 AM.

  18. #118
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    I'd rather he killed Aggra, because then I'd finally be rid of her AND it would produce delicious character development for Thrall.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  19. #119
    Doesnt have to die, but he should be phased out. He's done enough in the story, give others a chance to shine for once.

  20. #120
    What's up with people's crazy obsession with killing notable Orcs?
    Everyone assumes Garrosh will get killed, even though that is not certain at all. Metzen has hinted there's more with Garrosh after MoP.

    I've seen suggestions say Saurfang should get killed. And now Thrall.

    Seriously, what the f*ck people? There are hardly any more notable Orcs besides these 3. Nazgrel, Nazgrim and Eitrigg is all I can think of that come somewhat close. But they're not on the same level as the above 3.

    In my opinion the Horde (Orcs) has lost enough of their heroes with Warcraft 2. And even after that they lost Grom Hellscream. Please let the rest live!

    The Alliance has so many heroes go neutral BECAUSE they have so many left. So for balance sake, don't go wishing for more dead Orcs.
    Alliance still has Khadgar, Danath, Turalyon (missing but alive), Alleria (missing but alive), Varian, Jaina, Vereesa, Muradin, Falstad, Kurdran, Magni (technically he's still alive), Moira, Tyrande, Malfurion, Velen, Tirion (though neutral now). Even when you don't count the ones that are currently missing in action, that's still a shitload of heroes.

    What does the Horde have? Thrall, Garrosh, Saurfang, Vol'jin, Baine, Sylvanas, Lor'themar. And the suggestions are to kill off Thrall, Garrosh and Saurfang? Yeah, that does really do the Horde justice. /sarcasm

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