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  1. #1

    Should there be "Pure" Tanking/Healing classes?

    There's been some questioning regarding the position of 'pure dps' classes in todays game, what role they're intended to fill and so on and whether they should be given an additional spec for another role, or have one of their existing specs replaced. One of the points that always seems to come up against that is that people who rolled a pure DPS, did so because they wanted nothing to do with the other roles. But what about players who don't want anything to do with DPS? I've known plenty of players over the years who ran Druids or Paladins with only a main Tanking spec and Healing off-spec, and before the new talent trees Warriors and DKs with two distinct Tanking builds as well as the countless Priests today who run with a Holy and a Disc spec.

    In classic, Paladins and Priests were healers and Warriors were tanks; those classes were in effect 'Pure' already and their DPS specs only expanded on in TBC. So there is precedent. With GC stating now that they *try* to keep fights as two-tanking efforts, and that Healers can now deal some damage effectively without breaking the game: Is there scope for 'pures' for those niche roles? And would you play a class that was?

  2. #2
    If anything, they should convert current pures into hybrids.

  3. #3
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    No, I wouldn't.
    Because no matter how much I prefer tanking and healing over DPS, dps still is the King if you want to level.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    If anything, they should convert current pures into hybrids.
    ^This! While it is a nice thought to have classes that are best @ X. You will see groups go like this:
    LFD: enter dungeon
    Warriortank: wtf... /leaves
    Mage: Hell no, I am gonna spend my time elsewhere
    Druid: But but...
    Paladin: Sigh .. this is the 10th time today!
    Rogue: reroll bitches!!!

    As it was much like during Vanilla and partly TBC.

    So unless Blizzard gets rid of all classes except 3 (Warriortank/Mage(or rogue)/Holypriest) - you shouldn't even WANT this.

    Oh and paladins were pretty much shunned out of the healing role. Sure if you knew a paladin to be a good healer then by all means. But mostly they were regarded as cleanse/buffbot. In my MC days my team of paladins was not even counted towards the healergroup. We didn't get any assignments apart from offhealing here and there. So while we were regarded as holy all the time. It was the best spec we could have. There was no tankgear with mana on it (save the useless offpiece. There was no valid way to dps as a paladin. So hence we were pigeonholed into healing.

    And the weird thing is... I hated healing until I could finally change into any spec I wanted
    Last edited by Vaelorian; 2013-02-11 at 01:21 PM.

  5. #5
    I'm not talking about 'better' at a given role, even now pure DPS are mostly no better than hybrids at DPS (even where they are, Aff and Arcane are being nerfed, and Shadow Buffed before we get derailed to that; let's not talk about hybrid taxes either).

    Nor did we have LFD in TBC or Classic for your hypothetical scenario to have occured.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    There's been some questioning regarding the position of 'pure dps' classes in todays game, what role they're intended to fill and so on and whether they should be given an additional spec for another role, or have one of their existing specs replaced. One of the points that always seems to come up against that is that people who rolled a pure DPS, did so because they wanted nothing to do with the other roles. But what about players who don't want anything to do with DPS? I've known plenty of players over the years who ran Druids or Paladins with only a main Tanking spec and Healing off-spec, and before the new talent trees Warriors and DKs with two distinct Tanking builds as well as the countless Priests today who run with a Holy and a Disc spec.

    In classic, Paladins and Priests were healers and Warriors were tanks; those classes were in effect 'Pure' already and their DPS specs only expanded on in TBC. So there is precedent. With GC stating now that they *try* to keep fights as two-tanking efforts, and that Healers can now deal some damage effectively without breaking the game: Is there scope for 'pures' for those niche roles? And would you play a class that was?
    A precedent Blizzard has worked hard to move away from. Very unlikely they will revert years of progress to go back to classes that can only heal or only tank.
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  7. #7
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Whats funny about this is that this concept was actually my next class concept. I'll be posting it up tonight, but I think it's funny that you thought up this thread while the concept was swimming around in my head.

  8. #8
    Over 9000! Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Since every class in the game can DPS, I think it would be weird to have one that can't.

  9. #9
    Id' love a pure healing class, with 3 distinct healing styles, but it's a problem for leveling. At least one of the healing specs should be competitive in dps as well, just to be able to level at an acceptable pace. That will be a challenge. I do run my priests as holy/disc, but only at max level. I have to use shadow for leveling or it will take forever
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  10. #10
    today raids require tanks and healers to respec between fights. Every tier has 1 tank fights, 2 or 3 heal fights.. Whether I like this fact or not - this broadens the encounter variety. If they went with pure tank classes they'd need to take that into consideration and pretty much end 1 tankable fights (what if a guild has 2x pure tank for ex)

    Personally I think (and have always thought) that the idea behind pure classes is flawed because it offers nothing that hybrids doesn't do. They offer limited gameplay capabilities compared to hybrids, make it harder to adjust to encounters and rooster changes. The game should go towards opening more options for players, not less - that's why we didn't get new pure class yet and I doubt we'll ever will.

    What's more tanks for ex. are not really viable in PvP (except for RBGs flag carriers?) so that'd remove whole class from more serious pvp.. Doubt Blizz would want it.

    So - no there shouldn't be a pure tank/healer class. Limiting gameplay is not a good idea. If someone limits a gameplay for himself (running for ex. holy/disc priest) - that's fine, it's his choice. If Blizz tried this - that'd only hurt the game and the class itself IMHO.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    ^This! While it is a nice thought to have classes that are best @ X. You will see groups go like this:
    LFD: enter dungeon
    Warriortank: wtf... /leaves
    Mage: Hell no, I am gonna spend my time elsewhere
    Druid: But but...
    Paladin: Sigh .. this is the 10th time today!
    Rogue: reroll bitches!!!

    As it was much like during Vanilla and partly TBC.
    I don't even get what you're trying to say in the slightest.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DemoBytom View Post
    So - no there shouldn't be a pure tank/healer class. Limiting gameplay is not a good idea. If someone limits a gameplay for himself (running for ex. holy/disc priest) - that's fine, it's his choice. If Blizz tried this - that'd only hurt the game and the class itself IMHO.
    But people do choose pures with the intention of deliberately restricting themselves. Why is the 'choice' not there for those who would rather fill the other other roles?

  13. #13
    Pure vs Hybrid will always bring back the issue of "Hybrid Tax". Hybrid Tax historically has taken the shape of either less DPS than a pure class, or fewer utility abilities. In the current environment of MOP there is almost no Hybrid Tax at all, which means there is little incentive to play a pure DPS class except for thematic preference or because you don't want to be asked to do X.

    Hybrid Tax is generally a bad idea, though, so the more reasonable answer seems to be turning everyone into a Hybrid.

    If you go with the 2 primary role/1 secondary role model then you always have the option of selecting the same role for both your specs, and mostly avoid being asked to do something you dislike. Mostly.

    If you create pure Tanking or pure Healing classes, then you are almost obligated to bring back Hybrid Tax.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I'm not talking about 'better' at a given role, even now pure DPS are mostly no better than hybrids at DPS (even where they are, Aff and Arcane are being nerfed, and Shadow Buffed before we get derailed to that; let's not talk about hybrid taxes either).

    Nor did we have LFD in TBC or Classic for your hypothetical scenario to have occured.
    My example was as how it WOULD be in todays perspective. Today we do have LFD right? "As it was much like during Vanilla and partly TBC."
    The LFD isn't referring to that period. The way people formed a party was...

    Regardless > pure specs isn't going to work right now - if you remake the game.. then perhaps.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    My example was as how it WOULD be in todays perspective. Today we do have LFD right? "As it was much like during Vanilla and partly TBC."
    The LFD isn't referring to that period. The way people formed a party was...

    Regardless > pure specs isn't going to work right now - if you remake the game.. then perhaps.
    Tank class can only queue as tank, healer class can only queue as healer. That's not counting the notion of a class with 2 healing and 1 tanking spec (or vice versa). How does that impact LFD negatively?

  16. #16
    There is simply no room for this in the game at this point.
    Perhaps you could see Priests and Warriors as the Pure tanking/healing classes back in classic. Since their "off-role" specs had very little viability in comparison.
    And how fun was that.
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  17. #17
    Dreadlord Kaga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyzzz View Post
    If anything, they should convert current pures into hybrids.
    This, via 4th specs seems like the best way to please everyone, although it would be a huge undertaking, and would cause eons of balance issues. This would conserve existing specs, while removing the pure/hybrid distinction.

    It would be kinda cool to see more classes with 2 tanking/healing specs though, but i think a full set would be going to far.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Tank class can only queue as tank, healer class can only queue as healer. That's not counting the notion of a class with 2 healing and 1 tanking spec (or vice versa). How does that impact LFD negatively?
    It is cause the hybrids weren't a pure dps/healing or tankclass. = they were bad at everything then a pure class. Jack-of-all-trades master of none etc.
    So how it would matter? People like in Vanilla and TBC left those classes to rot while forming a group. Perhaps it would be less now, since you get a debuff from leaving the instance right away. But when people had a choice back in the day - they left.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    But people do choose pures with the intention of deliberately restricting themselves. Why is the 'choice' not there for those who would rather fill the other other roles?
    They can still deliberately restrict themselves to a tank- or healer-only character. It's just not enforced by the game.

    The choice is there.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    It is cause the hybrids weren't a pure dps/healing or tankclass. = they were bad at everything then a pure class. Jack-of-all-trades master of none etc.
    So how it would matter? People like in Vanilla and TBC left those classes to rot while forming a group. Perhaps it would be less now, since you get a debuff from leaving the instance right away. But when people had a choice back in the day - they left.
    I'm talking about todays game where Hybrids aren't bad at anything. Pures aren't necessarily better at DPS, so there's no reason a pure tank or healer would be better than a hybrid.

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