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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by dantian View Post
    Even if it's not constitutional, who cares? It's better to have a literate, semi-educated population than one that isn't.
    It absolutely matters. It would essentially render the whole constitution redundant. If you can do one thing that is unconstitutional, you can do everything else too that is unconstitutional.

    Now, I'm pretty sure that the DoE is considered constitutional currently.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    It absolutely matters. It would essentially render the whole constitution redundant. If you can do one thing that is unconstitutional, you can do everything else too that is unconstitutional.

    Now, I'm pretty sure that the DoE is considered constitutional currently.
    If something essential for a modern, first world society is unconstitutional it's the document that needs to change, not the country, and educated population is essential. The constitution is a fine document, but it wasn't written by infallible wizards. People need to stop treating the constitution like it's a holy scripture laid down by God.

    Also, isn't something the supreme court calls constitutional by definition constitutional?

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Its not backed by fear. It backed by our massive economy and ridiculous level of wealth.
    You want something physical backing our money? We have raw materials, factories, TVs, cars and on and on backing it up.
    Gold has no intrinsic value that is not shared by fiat currency.
    The dollar isn't backed by the wealth of Americans, as the US government doesn't own this wealth and isn't obligated to redeem dollars for it. It's pure faith.

    A currency that is backed by something, such as a commodity, is very different. There's a contractual obligation for the issuer of the currency to redeem it against this commodity. This too, however, suffers from relying on the faith that the issuer will meet these obligations.

  4. #204
    The Lightbringer breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Willy View Post
    Is the push for gun control really "wildly popular"? I haven't seen many conservatives being happy with it.
    that's because its not conservatives leading the charge. its the democrats.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by dantian View Post
    If something essential for a modern, first world society is unconstitutional it's the document that needs to change, not the country, and educated population is essential. The constitution is a fine document, but it wasn't written by infallible wizards. People need to stop treating the constitution like it's a holy scripture laid down by God.
    You don't have to treat it as being written by infallible wizards, it can certainly be changed. But you absolutely have to treat what it currently says as "a holy scripture laid down by god" in the sense that it must be followed without exception and all other laws must be in accordance with the current constitution.

    Just ignoring what the constitution says because you think doing so is better for society means you descend on a dangerous path. Next someone decides the first amendment is bad for your security and it's ignored, etc.

    No, what you need to do is lawfully alter the constitution, according to the correct procedures.

    Quote Originally Posted by dantian
    Also, isn't something the supreme court calls constitutional by definition constitutional?
    Legally, yes.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Diurdi View Post
    You don't have to treat it as being written by infallible wizards, it can certainly be changed. But you absolutely have to treat what it currently says as "a holy scripture laid down by god" in the sense that it must be followed without exception and all other laws must be in accordance with the current constitution.

    Just ignoring what the constitution says because you think doing so is better for society means you descend on a dangerous path. Next someone decides the first amendment is bad for your security and it's ignored, etc.

    No, what you need to do is lawfully alter the constitution, according to the correct procedures.

    Legally, yes.
    To a greater point the constitution was created with evolution in mind, meaning that things can be amended and have been in the past, when changes happen that go against the constitution it should be modified through the appropriate channels not just blatantly ignored. The thing people forget when the talk down about our constitution is that it helped to create one of the greatest nations man has ever seen. So no they are not infallible wizards but they were a damn spot smarter than "most" other nation builders past and present.
    Last edited by Jaggid; 2013-02-14 at 11:13 AM.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Willy View Post
    Is the push for gun control really "wildly popular"? I haven't seen many conservatives being happy with it.
    Its a funny thing. You ask people about the specific provisions of what Obama is going for and they're really popular things. Something like 90% of the country is in favor of Obama's plans on background checks for instance. The only thing that he doesn't have majority support on is the assault weapon ban and that's a near one. But when you ask if they support Obama's plan itself they say no in larger numbers.

    That's the state of American politics.
    Uh, normally when talking about Keynesianism, you are removing certain aspects of the free market, and as such government intervention follows. Prime example: The New Deal.
    Again, just because its government intervention doesn't mean its Keynesian economics.

    The dollar isn't backed by the wealth of Americans, as the US government doesn't own this wealth and isn't obligated to redeem dollars for it. It's pure faith.

    A currency that is backed by something, such as a commodity, is very different. There's a contractual obligation for the issuer of the currency to redeem it against this commodity. This too, however, suffers from relying on the faith that the issuer will meet these obligations.
    Can you tell me how faith in the value of gold is different than faith in the value of our economic power and government stability in meaningful and contextually relevant terms?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  8. #208
    "He really isn't that far off. He however is smarter than his father and realizes you need to play politics in order to get into power. Without that power you cannot fix things and bring the real change that is needed."

    Ron Paul maintained his integrity, and for that the Republican party punished him in the last election. Rand Paul, being "smarter" as you say, knows now that his integrity is worthless, and selling out is his way to success.

    Ron Paul is decent. He stood by his principles.
    Rand Paul is not decent, and threw his principles away so that he could get a whiff of power.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by dantian View Post
    If something essential for a modern, first world society is unconstitutional it's the document that needs to change, not the country, and educated population is essential. The constitution is a fine document, but it wasn't written by infallible wizards. People need to stop treating the constitution like it's a holy scripture laid down by God.

    Also, isn't something the supreme court calls constitutional by definition constitutional?
    Bingo! That power was given to them in the constitution :P

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