1. #9541
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I don't think they are intentionally trying to make the community angry ether. I do think they fuck with the game in ways (likely orderd by activision). But they do have a history of doing this and Zephyr gave examples of those times on the last page.
    Fuck with the game in what way? The experience issue? I agree that wasn't handled the best, but the thinking behind the overall change makes sense (wanting to decrease experience from fast-farmed events and boost it from slower activities like raid so that it's more uniformly gained and not exploited). Their execution was poor and they should have been more transparent, but it wasn't evil or anywhere near worth the blow-up it received, IMO.

    Beyond that, I looked at most of the examples and most of them can easily be chalked up to Bungie just being dumb and not learning from their mistakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I don't think any dev (EA included) does anything to try to piss people off.
    I agree, but there's a solid chunk of folks on the internet who seem convinced that developers actively want to piss off their customers. I guess because it makes it easier to hate on the developer/publisher or something.

  2. #9542
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I've been mostly keeping up, and I don't even follow. Hanlon's Razor and whatnot, most of these mistakes easily make sense out of incompetence/mistakes/stupidity rather than some vaguely nefarious plot to fuck with players because...uh...actually, I'm still not quite sure on that one.

    Yeah, Bungie likely spins quite a few yarns to try to cover up their blunders, but I've still yet to see any remotely convincing evidence that Bungie just just trying to fuck with the game and intentionally make the community angry.
    Its the illuminati paradox: better to believe theres a malicious, well thought out intent because the truth of incompetent, barely held together operations run by millionaires is too depressing and likely to collapse at any time to be able to deal with
    Last edited by dope_danny; 2017-12-11 at 09:30 PM.

  3. #9543
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Fuck with the game in what way? The experience issue? I agree that wasn't handled the best, but the thinking behind the overall change makes sense (wanting to decrease experience from fast-farmed events and boost it from slower activities like raid so that it's more uniformly gained and not exploited). Their execution was poor and they should have been more transparent, but it wasn't evil or anywhere near worth the blow-up it received, IMO.

    Beyond that, I looked at most of the examples and most of them can easily be chalked up to Bungie just being dumb and not learning from their mistakes.



    I agree, but there's a solid chunk of folks on the internet who seem convinced that developers actively want to piss off their customers. I guess because it makes it easier to hate on the developer/publisher or something.
    Ok ill say this its ether the bolded or in some way they want to fuck with the game. Hell you mite be right maybe they are just being dumb and didn't learn from the 4 years they have spent working on Destiny.

    I agree, but there's a solid chunk of folks on the internet who seem convinced that developers actively want to piss off their customers. I guess because it makes it easier to hate on the developer/publisher or something.
    Ya and those people are idiots. There is only one developer I can think of that went out of there way to piss there customers off and that was Phil fish.

    What lots of people don't seem to realize is game developers/publishers are in it to make money.

    Fuck with the game in what way
    Will go into detail a bit on this part more. I feel there is two way's they fucked with the game intentionally.

    1) The experience (Daddy Activision may have made the call on this one) but with the way that was handled was piss poor and wasted a lot of peoples time. Cosmetic (two items isn't) or not it was still a push to get people to buy the engrams.

    2) The DLC. The fact Heroic strikes is being sold as "extra content" is a fucken joke. Destiny had Heroic Strikes day 1 but here its some kind of extra bonus. This whole DLC reeks of cut content to be sold at extra cost. Now this gets said a lot about many games (example I even said it about BOTW). The thing here is Bungie has done been proven once to have done this. All the DLC besides Rise of Iron in Destiny 1 was cut content from the game. That came right out of former developers mouth's.

    We was suppose to have Taken King day 1.
    https://kotaku.com/the-messy-true-st...iny-1737556731

    The DLC feels like a repeat of that just to extend the content until the first true expansion while also making some $$$.

    Hell maybe all of this is because they are still playing catch up from the shit show that was Destiny 1. I don't know and I don't think we will ever know. But its clear Bungie hasn't learned from History and they are repeating it.

    I want the game to do good I think what lore that is there is great and it can tell a interesting story. But how they have handled it all IMO is piss poor.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Its the illuminati paradox: better to believe theres a malicious, well thought out intend because the truth of incompetent, barely held together operations run by millionaires is too depressing and likely to collapse at any time to be able to deal with
    This lol 10/10
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  4. #9544
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    1) The experience (Daddy Activision may have made the call on this one) but with the way that was handled was piss poor and wasted a lot of peoples time. Cosmetic (two items isn't) or not it was still a push to get people to buy the engrams.
    How did it "waste time"? I mean, with the changes now it's largely the same, and if anything folks doing stuff like Raids are seeing less experience than before >.>

    Again, I agree it was handled very poorly, but IMO it was nowhere near worth the outrage and hate that it received.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    2) The DLC. The fact Heroic strikes is being sold as "extra content" is a fucken joke. Destiny had Heroic Strikes day 1 but here its some kind of extra bonus. This whole DLC reeks of cut content to be sold at extra cost. Now this gets said a lot about many games (example I even said it about BOTW). The thing here is Bungie has done been proven once to have done this. All the DLC besides Rise of Iron in Destiny 1 was cut content from the game. That came right out of former developers mouth's.
    Agreed, the DLC is underwhelming. But again, that seems more like "regular Bungie" than anything else. Similar criticisms were levied at many of the DLC's for D1, no? This impacts new PC players who don't have experience/knowledge of Destiny 1 more than console folks. If anything, it speaks more to the "mistake" of launching a sequel rather than simply continuing to expand Destiny 1, all while repeating many of the same mistakes and discovering a whole bunch of new mistakes to make for Destiny 2.

    Though again, despite my disappointment with CoO I think a lot of the reactions I've seen are pretty hyperbolic. I'm disappointed and mildly annoyed at stuff like the new strike being literally just a campaign mission and the heroic adventures launching bugged, but hot damn is this DLC getting a ton of hate from what I'm seeing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    I want the game to do good I think what lore that is there is great and it can tell a interesting story. But how they have handled it all IMO is piss poor.
    I'm on board with this (at least the piss poor part). They have an incredible foundation for a game, but a pretty lackluster execution beyond that. But again, it seems more "Bungie continues to be Bungie" than "BUNGIE IS LITERALLY THE WORST!" : P

  5. #9545
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm on board with this (at least the piss poor part). They have an incredible foundation for a game, but a pretty lackluster execution beyond that. But again, it seems more "Bungie continues to be Bungie" than "BUNGIE IS LITERALLY THE WORST!" : P
    Oh this is how I feel about it as well. They are far from being the worse gaming company (That title goes to EA lol).

    How did it "waste time"?
    People grinding XP for engrams and not getting the correct amount, That outright wastes peoples time.
    Check me out....Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing, Im └(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┘┌(-.-)┐└(-.-)┐ Dancing.
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  6. #9546
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post


    People grinding XP for engrams and not getting the correct amount, That outright wastes peoples time.
    Yeah but the people doing Crucible and Raid were given extra xp to compensate for innate low xp gain of those modes. Now gaining xp on crucible is a waste of time, when one heroic event give you 10k or close to it.

  7. #9547
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Wait...you're THE esoterickk?! Been watching your shit since year 1. Haven't been able to solo anything yet...lol
    Haha yup that's me! Normally don't get into petty arguments like today, just certain people rub me the wrong way sometimes and hate being lied about things I'm very clearly not lol. Best of luck if you do try to solo anything too!

    New post from Bungie about previous content and stuff too:
    Expansion and Season Access Update
    0h - Destiny Dev Team
    With Curse of Osiris now live, it’s clear that we’ve made some mistakes with how we have handled content access. We would like to talk through the reasoning behind our decisions so far and what we are committed to changing moving forward.

    The Destiny endgame features a variety of activities and playlists that we want to remain relevant to players as they grow more powerful. In Destiny 1, as your character grew more powerful throughout each expansion, some of our best content, like Vault of Glass, was left behind and lost its relevance for players. We wanted a better solution for Destiny 2, where all of our Endgame activities could stay relevant as each Expansion causes your Guardian to grow more and more powerful.

    The following were our goals when we separated “Normal” and “Prestige” modes:

    The Normal Leviathan Raid and Normal Nightfall would always stay at a Power level that was accessible to all players.
    Prestige difficulty would always rise to the new Power cap. It could be the pinnacle of challenge, with the most prestigious rewards, but it therefore would require you to own the latest Expansion and be at the new Power cap.


    Additionally, the game provides Seasonal, time-limited PvP playlists – Trials of The Nine and Iron Banner. These activities and their rewards are meant to evolve each Season, and they utilize new maps, so they would require you to own the latest content. To play the latest season of Iron Banner or Trials, and earn the new rewards, players would need to own Curse of Osiris.

    We’ve heard from the community that both of these plans aren’t working. The Prestige Raid was a novel experience that players value, even if they don’t own Curse of Osiris, and it was a mistake to move that experience out of reach. Throughout the lifetime of the Destiny Franchise, Trials has always required that players owned the latest Expansion. However, for Destiny 2, Trials of The Nine launched as part of the main game, so it’s not right for us to remove access to it.

    To make matters worse, our team overlooked the fact that both of these mistakes disabled Trophies and Achievements for Destiny 2. This was an unacceptable lapse on our part, and we can understand the frustration it has created.

    Therefore, this week, we will release a hotfix that will make the following changes:

    The Prestige Leviathan Raid will be brought back down to Power 300, and its rewards will drop down to match the new Power Level. All players will regain access to the Prestige Raid.
    This will allow access to “The Prestige” Achievement/Trophy for all players.
    This will also allow all players ability to complete the final step for the Legend of Acrius Exotic Shotgun.


    Trials of The Nine will only require Curse of Osiris when it features a Curse of Osiris map. For all other weeks, it will be available to all players.
    This will allow access to “Lest Ye Be Judged” Achievement/Trophy for all players.
    Trials of The Nine rewards that launched with Destiny 2 will still be accessible to all players.
    New Seasonal Rewards that launched with Curse of Osiris, such as the new Seasonal Armor Ornaments, will require ownership of Curse of Osiris to acquire.


    The Prestige Nightfall will remain a pinnacle activity, at the new 330 Power cap.
    This means Prestige Nightfall will require ownership of Curse of Osiris.
    Because of this, we will update “The Prestige” Achievement/Trophy to only reference The Prestige Raid.
    Moving forward, we are investigating adding a 3rd difficulty to all Prestige activities, so that we can provide both a challenge that stays relevant with each new Expansion, and a Prestige version that is available to all players.


    Normal Nightfall will only require Curse of Osiris when it features a Curse of Osiris map. For all other weeks it will be available to all players.


    Time limited events – Iron Banner, Faction Rally, and The Dawning, will be made available to all players.
    We will be postponing tomorrow’s Faction Rally, to ensure all of our players can access the activity and the appropriate rewards.
    Iron Banner and Faction Rally rewards that launched with Destiny 2 will still be accessible to all players.
    New Seasonal Rewards that launch with Curse of Osiris, such as the new Seasonal Armor Ornaments, will require ownership of Curse of Osiris to acquire.


    We expect these changes to go live tomorrow at the end of scheduled maintenance to deploy Update 1.1.1. Moving forward, we are also looking to improve on Heroic Strikes, with new challenges, new Modifiers, and free access for all players.

    Thank you for your patience and feedback as we work to continuously improve the Destiny 2 experience.

    -- The Destiny Dev Team

  8. #9548
    All good news, but it begs the question: did they forget Destiny 2 has scaling mechanics?

  9. #9549
    Good on them for admitting they were wrong.

    Makes me question their ability as developers though lacking such basic insight on the environment these games are judged on.

    Wont be buying a bungie product again myself personally but gw guys on another public statement...

  10. #9550
    Quote Originally Posted by esoterickk View Post
    New post from Bungie about previous content and stuff too:
    Not a bad response to the criticism about lost content etc. for non-DLC folks, but hot damn do that have a massive laundry list of DLC content complaints that they need to seriously address, in addition to updates on a host of other issues like making chat remotely usable on PC.

    They need to hire another CM to literally just get details and communicate with fans, there's such a broad range of issues that need to be addressed and while this is a solid response to these criticisms specifically, they need to acknowledge the rest of them.

    Oh well, I'm not as salty as some folks, but Bungie has burned through any goodwill they'd earned from me early on. No more prepurchasing anything from hereon out, I'll wait to see how DLC 3 and subsequent DLC's end up being before purchasing.

    Edit - https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/940361008542990337

    Lens getting nerfed to the ground apparently. I'm not kidding, they're openly admitting they're making it useless until January, when they plan on doing a proper fix.

    Yeah, that's embarrassing. Isn't Bungie supposed to be a AAA developer?
    Last edited by Edge-; 2017-12-12 at 12:04 AM.

  11. #9551
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Not a bad response to the criticism about lost content etc. for non-DLC folks, but hot damn do that have a massive laundry list of DLC content complaints that they need to seriously address, in addition to updates on a host of other issues like making chat remotely usable on PC.

    They need to hire another CM to literally just get details and communicate with fans, there's such a broad range of issues that need to be addressed and while this is a solid response to these criticisms specifically, they need to acknowledge the rest of them.

    Oh well, I'm not as salty as some folks, but Bungie has burned through any goodwill they'd earned from me early on. No more prepurchasing anything from hereon out, I'll wait to see how DLC 3 and subsequent DLC's end up being before purchasing.

    Edit - https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/940361008542990337

    Lens getting nerfed to the ground apparently. I'm not kidding, they're openly admitting they're making it useless until January, when they plan on doing a proper fix.

    Yeah, that's embarrassing. Isn't Bungie supposed to be a AAA developer?
    Thank fuck i got a 320 alternative from verse 6.

  12. #9552
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Thank fuck i got a 320 alternative from verse 6.
    I'm kinda glad I've been purposefully not using it in PvE after the first day of giggling at it being broken. I'd have to re-adjust to other weapons otherwise.

    Is it bad that I kinda expected the reaction to be to overnerf it in the "short term"? : /

  13. #9553
    Well, Bungie did at least admit that they did not test the prometheus lens at all with their latest twitter statement. Thats some quality development for sure.
    So much for the people claiming it was just a "bug".

    https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/940361008542990337

    Given the short window we had to make an emergency fix, it will be adjusted to be way too weak. In January, this new Exotic will receive a proper, play-tested design pass. (2/2)

  14. #9554
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm kinda glad I've been purposefully not using it in PvE after the first day of giggling at it being broken. I'd have to re-adjust to other weapons otherwise.

    Is it bad that I kinda expected the reaction to be to overnerf it in the "short term"? : /
    Yeah it was easily my highest power weapon by miles then verse 6 gave me a 320 sub thats my highest power weapon and shreds even elites. Eats ammo like nobodies business but two magazines can burn down an elite vex hydra with ease.

  15. #9555
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanden View Post
    Well, Bungie did at least admit that they did not test the prometheus lens at all with their latest twitter statement. Thats some quality development for sure.
    So much for the people claiming it was just a "bug".

    https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/940361008542990337
    Eh, reads more like they don't have the time to do that now, so are postponing it until January. Hence the "nerf to the ground" band-aid in the meantime.

    It's still pretty bullshit, but don't see how that indicates that they didn't playtest it before, even if the playtesting they did was poor and let it launch broken.

  16. #9556
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanden View Post
    Well, Bungie did at least admit that they did not test the prometheus lens at all with their latest twitter statement. Thats some quality development for sure.
    So much for the people claiming it was just a "bug".

    https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/940361008542990337
    That still doesn't make it not a bug. It behaved differently in PVP than PVE with every single tick of damage doing multiple extra procs. It's why the TTK was so insanely high for PVP and wasn't nearly as broken in PVE. You could click spam single shots from the lens and melt somebody in 0.3 seconds with multiple extra ticks appearing. Didn't happen in PVE that way at all.

    Still very clearly a bug, but how something like that made it through playtesting isn't right either. The wording saying "will receive a proper, play-tested design pass" is for the future iteration, not indicating zero testing was done on the current or that it was shipped as intended. To be clear, not defending Bungie or their approach (it's sad I need this disclaimer now lol) - it's shocking that something like that went through unnoticed. But it's still very clearly an unintended bug due to how it's functioning, and not just an intentional tuning issue with the weapon.

  17. #9557
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanden View Post
    Well, Bungie did at least admit that they did not test the prometheus lens at all with their latest twitter statement. Thats some quality development for sure.
    So much for the people claiming it was just a "bug".

    https://twitter.com/Bungie/status/940361008542990337
    That doesnt mean it wasnt a bug /wasnt tested at all.. just that they did a poor job at it the first time and they'll do a better one next time. God you are trying hard since a week in this thread and in the division one..

  18. #9558
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoewy View Post
    That doesnt mean it wasnt a bug /wasnt tested at all.. just that they did a poor job at it the first time and they'll do a better one next time. God you are trying hard since a week in this thread and in the division one..
    How exactly did they test it if any destiny 2 player could see within a few minutes after getting it that something is completely off? It literally jumps you in the face.
    Actually im not trying hard, im finally having a fun time with the game, not by playing it but rather reading how amateurish this shitfest can still get. As a programmer myself I can only shake my head and chuckle. Working there must be really lenient unlike real industry.

  19. #9559
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Good on them for admitting they were wrong.

    Makes me question their ability as developers though lacking such basic insight on the environment these games are judged on.

    Wont be buying a bungie product again myself personally but gw guys on another public statement...
    Yeah I don't get it either. a mob plvl 300 mob is the same to a plvl 300 player as a 360 mob is to a 360 player. Instead of scaling up the instance to keep "prestige" as difficult content, why not scale the player down if they enter an old prestige raid.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  20. #9560
    Quote Originally Posted by Shanden View Post
    How exactly did they test it if any destiny 2 player could see within a few minutes after getting it that something is completely off? It literally jumps you in the face.
    Actually im not trying hard, im finally having a fun time with the game, not by playing it but rather reading how amateurish this shitfest can still get. As a programmer myself I can only shake my head and chuckle. Working there must be really lenient unlike real industry.
    It's very possible something they tweaked after adding the weapon screwed it up. And in a rush to get the patch out, they didn't go back and re-test the weapon.

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