1. #1

    Have you ever experienced players help kill off a game?

    So the other day a friend of mine expressed interest in The Division. She missed it at launch and wanted to know if it was worth getting into because 'The Dark Zone sounds real interesting' which to be fair did when i got it at launch. I could only explain my experiences which were when the game began and as a lone player lurking department store buildings with a marksman rifle to survive solo DZ play i saw gangs of players -often multiple parties organised together outside the game- camping the entrances to the Dark Zone, guns at the ready to mow down anyone entering for the first time.
    It was a skinner box that eventually lead to the word of mouth that 'its not worth bothering, just avoid the Dark Zone its a failed experiment' and even news sites reported it as such. Trouble for The Division was that without the Dark Zone gimmick it was a bad bullet sponge looter shooter with boring loot and a player base that shrank on a level that had never been seen at the time and would not be beaten till For Honours catastrophic player drop off.

    Difference was For Honours issues were entirely on the developers part. While The Division had plenty of flaws in and of itself the first domino to start the chain falling was how players ruined the Dark Zone experience for so many that it had a chain reaction and killed off interest in the game in general.

    My friend ended up getting Titanfall 2 instead, funnily enough a super small playerbase thats eager for new blood and desperate to keep their game alive so hopefully she gets some fun out of that one.

    But thinking on it made me wonder whats the worst cases of players 'ruining' a game experience? Not via cheating or some out of game exploits but by playing the game 'as intended' so to speak leading to unforseen consequences.

    Theres a fair few mmos who have had their economies ruined i can name but the standout i always remember is Vanilla WoW's "The Legend of Angwe". An orc Rogue who spent almost all day every day for like a year keeping Menethil Harbour on total lockdown. Wanted to get to Theramore or Darkshore as a babby alliance player? well tough shit Angwe would not let you.
    His kill count was astronomical, players screamed for devs to do something about him but on a pvp server he was breaking no rules. Eventually an alliance rp guild 'the cult of angwe' showed up. Lurking the wetlands to spread the word of fresh meat on the road and for a solid 3 months not one alliance player was able to use the intercontinental transport routes from Menethil Harbour because Angwe simply did not allow it.

    Eventually the devs sort of told them to cut it out purely because the wetlands was becoming a no go zone for alliance players and this meant no pvp at all north of the thandol span. Still thats one example i always remember of a player using the games built in gameplay to actively shut down normal, intended game function and behaviour to such a degree.

    Didn't lead to bad word of mouth like The Dark Zone camping parties, but i'll always remember that "oh no we don't go there, not when Angwe's watching" vibe at the time doing the rounds.


    What about you, have you ever seen players completely shut down a game or facet of a game like this before?
    Last edited by dope_danny; 2017-07-23 at 10:53 AM.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  2. #2
    Not that I'm implying Overwatch is in any way dying, but if the community stays on the course it's on right now, it will run the game into the ground. Constant whining about meta that doesn't effect them and cosmetics that don't matter, alongside rumor mongering and money grubbing popular Youtubers, its fanbase just becoming a cesspool of toxicity and whining.

  3. #3
    Merely a Setback Jtbrig7390's Avatar
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    Throw a dart at a book of online MP games(MMO's included) and there is a likely chance this has happen or will happen.

    As for me personally.

    1) HOTS: Nearly stopped playing due to how toxic the chat was, If it wasn't for the ability to turn it off I would stop playing.
    2) World of Warcraft: Between the dev's poor choices and the toxic community I hanged my hat up after 10 years.
    3) Four Honor: Between dev poor choices and the community abusing the shit out of builds, I left it.
    4) The Division: For the reasons u listed above.

    Those are the only games I can think of atm. Runescape has a toxic community but it can be 100% ignored. I had a high level guy the other day say he was going to report me for RL trading even tho u can buy bonds from Jagex themselves and sell them for gold. I turned around and reported him for threats and abuse of the report system.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post
    Not that I'm implying Overwatch is in any way dying, but if the community stays on the course it's on right now, it will run the game into the ground. Constant whining about meta that doesn't effect them and cosmetics that don't matter, alongside rumor mongering and money grubbing popular Youtubers, its fanbase just becoming a cesspool of toxicity and whining.
    ....and the smurfing. I only decided to jump into Overwatch a few months ago, but the number of obvious smurfs was mind-boggling. I just couldn't bring myself to care enough to keep playing.

    On that note, smurfing in general is just about the most sure-fire way to help contribute to a game's demise. The more prevalent smurfs get in a game, the more frustrating the game becomes for newcomers - newcomers who never stick around long enough to get good.
    If your game has no fresh blood coming in to replace the veterans that leave, eventually the playerbase shrinks until only the tiny hardcore base remains.

    At that point your game is permanently fucked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    An orc Rogue who spent almost all day every day for like a year keeping Menethil Harbour on total lockdown. Wanted to get to Theramore or Darkshore as a babby alliance player? well tough shit Angwe would not let you.
    His kill count was astronomical, players screamed for devs to do something about him but on a pvp server he was breaking no rules. Eventually an alliance rp guild 'the cult of angwe' showed up. Lurking the wetlands to spread the word of fresh meat on the road and for a solid 3 months not one alliance player was able to use the intercontinental transport routes from Menethil Harbour because Angwe simply did not allow it.
    Seriously, what the hell were the Alliance 60s doing? This is basically the ideal starter for a world pvp brawl.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by EbonBehelit View Post
    Seriously, what the hell were the Alliance 60s doing? This is basically the ideal starter for a world pvp brawl.
    http://liquidcode.org/~lostman/wow/d...e/stuff/angwe/

    He operated on another level

    In hindsight he was probably the inspiration for the nerd guy in the south park episode.
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    He operated on another level

    In hindsight he was probably the inspiration for the nerd guy in the south park episode.
    Like, what on earth did the guy expect to receive from the people he ganked all day every day...... unamimous glowing praise? The only thing worse than his shenanigans is the fact that not only did the Alliance NOT stop him, they actually helped him grief people. Absolutely disgusting.

  7. #7
    Asheron's Call. When the first bots came up and legit players were furious, one dev replied along the lines 'Bot away and God bless you'. People started botting en masse and the game entered a long, long downward spiral.

  8. #8
    pretty much any game that's advertised as ''open world sandbox'' but turns out to be a forced PVP game, like rust, DayZ, ark etc.
    Toxic cesspool of griefers, cartels, server jumpers and super alliances that makes it impossible for anyone new to get in to, unless you want to go through the hazzle of setting up a private server with password.

    stopped playing wow because somebody brought the drama llama in to the zoo called our guild (that and stagnating gameplay and content).

    LoL and dota in particular because everybody, even in something as basic as bot games wants to be the next genericproplayer5000 and becomes incredibly toxic and hostile when they see something that isnt a carbon copy of a popular internet guide based on the top teams.

    not that those games are dying in any way, but hell did those things turn me away from them, and i know that they turn a lot of new people away as well.

  9. #9
    The Undying GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post
    Not that I'm implying Overwatch is in any way dying, but if the community stays on the course it's on right now, it will run the game into the ground. Constant whining about meta that doesn't effect them and cosmetics that don't matter, alongside rumor mongering and money grubbing popular Youtubers, its fanbase just becoming a cesspool of toxicity and whining.
    Yeah, people are just parroting youtubers. Mercy is the most evil thing ever despite minimal changes to her. She got 1 change 2 seasons ago. Winstons sheild was over a season ago, tracer never was touched and was fairly weak for a while, genji changes were minimal, and D.va since her nerf has hardly been changed.

    Yet they are all the best ingame right now. Everyone is calling for there heads and I blame other first person shooters. There is a mentality of point and click = skill and any other play style requires no skill and thus needs to be nerfed. I mean there are 2 main healers in the game and the community already wants to get rid of 1 of them because of their own poorly timed ults and inability to kill healers.

    Also the rage over Hog. Yea Doomfist can get 1 shots, but Doomfist has to hit you into a wall and has to put himself in danger to do it with 250 health. Hog took you out of position (its bullshit to say he punished bad positioning, he could hook basically anyone unless they were behind a wall and even that wasn't necessarily true. Yes he was easy to deal with, but people are pretty binary in thinking, which Jeff Kaplan says himself and honestly its true across all games and life. Just cause Doomfist can 1 shot does not mean its the same as Hogs 1 shot) has 600 health, and didnt put himself in any real risk. Hog needs some lookin at to be more like a tank, but its wrong of the community to say Hog was not a problem before, he also was not a necessary evil.
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2017-07-23 at 01:24 PM.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Dark Souls has probably one of the worst communities in gaming and I can definitely see normal people turned off by the series because of the abusive cult that runs those games.
    rip Dave Zablidowsky

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Zogarth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Dark Souls has probably one of the worst communities in gaming and I can definitely see normal people turned off by the series because of the abusive cult that runs those games.
    The bad parts of that community mainly reside out of the game though, and most of the toxicity is just "GIT GUD" memes. In-game community is funny, and for the most part helpful with the messages, few communities have such detailed wikis and discussions, and the "pvp" in the game, main issue is lag imo.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Nurvus's Avatar
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    Eve Online
    Why did you create a new thread? Use the search function and post in existing threads!
    Why did you necro a thread?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zogarth View Post
    The bad parts of that community mainly reside out of the game though, and most of the toxicity is just "GIT GUD" memes. In-game community is funny, and for the most part helpful with the messages, few communities have such detailed wikis and discussions, and the "pvp" in the game, main issue is lag imo.
    Pretty much. Started playing with Demon's being a super niche thing everyone expected to be a one and done. Then Dark Souls came out and overnight the term 'artificial difficulty' skyrocketed in google searches and by DS2 all the screamer streamers and "but...perhaps" gaming tsuokolos' moved in.

    By DS3 most people that started with Demon's or Kings Field seem to have a generic dislike of the modern entity called 'the souls community'. We just wanted 3D castlevania games to enjoy in peace ;_;7
    http://theeorzeanfrontier.blogspot.co.uk/ Neckbeard rambling about this weeaboo trash

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurvus View Post
    Eve Online
    When i played EVE a few years ago the devs were actually very protective of new players. Scams and canflipping were allowed by devs but not in starter systems. There was a thread a few games ago where devs were emphasizing these rules and some vet player was trying to "toe the line" to see how close he could get to scamming/can flipping new players in starter systems and a dev or cm basically shut them down and said dont even think about it.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Zogarth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    Pretty much. Started playing with Demon's being a super niche thing everyone expected to be a one and done. Then Dark Souls came out and overnight the term 'artificial difficulty' skyrocketed in google searches and by DS2 all the screamer streamers and "but...perhaps" gaming tsuokolos' moved in.

    By DS3 most people that started with Demon's or Kings Field seem to have a generic dislike of the modern entity called 'the souls community'. We just wanted 3D castlevania games to enjoy in peace ;_;7
    I reckon most just enjoy to play the game, and have fun. I gradually stopped trying to play the "meta" and just played to have fun in it, not caring much about the community. I just found it fun to run around with a Ultra Greatsword like the one from Berserk, naked with a bucket on my head.

  16. #16
    For The Division: I thankfully never ran into the deathsquads waiting at the entrance problem (although you could just move down to a different one since there are like 12+ entrances), but one of the bigger problems was the hacking. They made a number of the weapon stats clientside in plain text so it was easily hacked. Super stupid.

    Also, they never bothered to explain to the common player how the group dungeon mechanics were supposed to work nor got them balanced properly. IE: Tank with riot shield screens the group to push forward then suppresses the enemy with the LMG, assault members flank and eliminate the suppressed targets while the support person SCIENCEs the battlefield. Instead they decided to rebalance the game around everyone being rambo and playing solo in the underground, etc.

    (Perks allowed for people nearby the riot shield to also get dmg reduction and suppressed targets took extra damage and were even "stunned" pinned against their cover during it which made them easy pickings for the flankers. Just most people went for all glass cannon overgeared builds instead)

    Its sad because the game has a cool ambiance to it with the epidemic stuff, but it was completely squandered by incompetent developers.
    Last edited by stellvia; 2017-07-23 at 07:32 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post
    Not that I'm implying Overwatch is in any way dying, but if the community stays on the course it's on right now, it will run the game into the ground. Constant whining about meta that doesn't effect them and cosmetics that don't matter, alongside rumor mongering and money grubbing popular Youtubers, its fanbase just becoming a cesspool of toxicity and whining.
    LoL has a notoriously well known toxic community, yet is still immensely popular so many years later. Think it is pretty safe to say that the toxicity of the gaming community leaves little impact on the game's overall health.

  18. #18
    When Warhammer Online was fairly new, my Clan basically locked down several areas for days on end on the Empire Side making the Zone nigh Unusable by the Chaos Faction. Though I guess that was moreso intended and encouraged.

    Thunderstorming the Naxx Summoning Stone in Wrath was fun as a Shaman.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Yeah, people are just parroting youtubers. Mercy is the most evil thing ever despite minimal changes to her. She got 1 change 2 seasons ago. Winstons sheild was over a season ago, tracer never was touched and was fairly weak for a while, genji changes were minimal, and D.va since her nerf has hardly been changed.

    Yet they are all the best ingame right now. Everyone is calling for there heads and I blame other first person shooters. There is a mentality of point and click = skill and any other play style requires no skill and thus needs to be nerfed. I mean there are 2 main healers in the game and the community already wants to get rid of 1 of them because of their own poorly timed ults and inability to kill healers.

    Also the rage over Hog. Yea Doomfist can get 1 shots, but Doomfist has to hit you into a wall and has to put himself in danger to do it with 250 health. Hog took you out of position (its bullshit to say he punished bad positioning, he could hook basically anyone unless they were behind a wall and even that wasn't necessarily true. Yes he was easy to deal with, but people are pretty binary in thinking, which Jeff Kaplan says himself and honestly its true across all games and life. Just cause Doomfist can 1 shot does not mean its the same as Hogs 1 shot) has 600 health, and didnt put himself in any real risk. Hog needs some lookin at to be more like a tank, but its wrong of the community to say Hog was not a problem before, he also was not a necessary evil.
    The fact you only have the thinnest knowledge of why people hate Mercy and a lot of those that play her (so thin that Paula Abdul went off the wagon to be thinner) depresses me and doesn't give me a lot of inspiration to try and inform people.

    Exhibit A: https://clips.twitch.tv/HotFlaccidFriesWow

    Mercy's SR gain is completely fucking borked, so much so that people who ordinarily would be in Gold or Plat find themselves suddenly elevated to levels beyond their actual skill. Her Resurrection ultimate gives her so much rating it's stupid and leads to players doing this:

    https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulDiligentPlumUnSane

    To farm SR points to get higher ranks. I guarantee you that Mercy didn't lose a point of ranking for throwing that match. It's awful, and it results in worse than sub-par teammates which leads to-

    Exhibit B: Mercy's skillset does not translate well to other Heroes. McCree player finding himself out of McCree? 76, Sombra, even Lucio share things in common. Aim, positioning, timing, etc. Mercy... just have a vague sense of awareness, mash Shift, or for extra shitter credit, hide behind the toilet all game and come out to rez.

    SO! If that particular player were to somehow... not get Mercy, the only thing they are (questionably) good at... god help you if they try to Damage, or Tank.

    Abandon hope when this happens: https://gfycat.com/ScaredHideousCollardlizard

    Even Jeff Kaplan said Mercy's resurrect was "not fun to play with/against".

    As for Road Hog, he was only a problem in the rust leagues, but whatever.


    EDIT: I suppose I should contribute

    Super Monday Night Combat was a fun 3rd Person Shooter/MOBA hybrid by Uber Entertainment, and it had loads of potential. But, like the rest, developer incompetence and unwillingness to help nurture it (they abandoned it to make Planetary Annihilation where they fleeced a bunch of idiots for early access, good show) but SMNC was also not helped by a group of people who queued together and stomped the living shit out of the others. So much they stopped playing, and it began to lose players exponentially until I quit and never looked back.

    Breaks my heart, loved that game.
    Last edited by NoiseTank13; Yesterday at 05:25 AM.
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  20. #20
    LoLs community helped me give up on that game.

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