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  1. #41
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Just another stealth buff to 25man. As if their advantages over 10man aren't already overpowered enough.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Devious009 View Post
    what the hell are you talking about when you said peeps are bitching about it the loot drop chance for 25 man havent changed the only confirmed announcment by blizzard was 25 man will have higher chance of getting TF loot dropped thats it there was no other change to 10 or 25 man as far as I know.
    In 25 mans, 6 items drop. This gives more loot per person.
    In 25 mans, you have a larger sample size, meaning you will be less effected by RNG (see above, 3% chance any item from this boss doesn't drop in 10 weeks for 25s, 37% chance any item doesn't drop in 10s after 10 weeks).
    In 25 mans, you now have an increased chance of thunderforged gear, increasing the gap even more.

    Its pretty dumb.

  3. #43
    Its gona eb a nightmare to drop one of the 2 daggers I need for my rogue on this tier. Im most likely gona end up having to go combat since there are 3 agi 1 handers, its still hella unlikely that any fo them will drop in a timely manner tough.

    Blizz is doing this to force ppl into 25 mans isnt it obvious, the disclosed method to incentivate 25s was thunderforged gear having more chance to drop the nondisclosed one is making ginourmous loot tables so 10 mans have no chance of getting anything they actualy need/want making loot distribution betewwen 10s and 25s completly uneven, because they can put 100 agi daggers on the tier, with loot tables that big the odds of never seeing one drop in a 10 man is still colossal.

    This also makes your lucky coins basicaly mandatory and less efective at the same time (since every boss have multiple itens you can get), this forces you to do daillys even if you dont want to. Ppl arent realy thinking how bad this is you gona see complaints popping left and right midtier when someone on a 10 man team has gone like 4 weeks straight and got absolutely nothing for him, or when someone has gone over 2 months and still havent gotten a weapon...

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    In 25 mans, 6 items drop. This gives more loot per person.
    In 25 mans, you have a larger sample size, meaning you will be less effected by RNG (see above, 3% chance any item from this boss doesn't drop in 10 weeks for 25s, 37% chance any item doesn't drop in 10s after 10 weeks).
    In 25 mans, you now have an increased chance of thunderforged gear, increasing the gap even more.

    Its pretty dumb.
    For god sake. With more loot on tables you also have more equipment choices. For example, there was one caster shield in t14, it's two in t15.

    With more items in loot tables you have less chance for useless on sharded items in 10 man, which is the main problem.

    Oh, and if you are not happy with drops - create 25 man raid. We heard it's easy.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    For god sake. With more loot on tables you also have more equipment choices. For example, there was one caster shield in t14, it's two in t15.

    With more items in loot tables you have less chance for useless on sharded items in 10 man, which is the main problem.

    Oh, and if you are not happy with drops - create 25 man raid. We heard it's easy.
    Seriously the choices have nothign to do with it, the probability of them dropping is all that matters (also its not realy a choice caus eits random, so if it drops youre stuck with it, like as I said above if agi 1 handers decide to drop in droves and no daggers do Im going combat altough Id prefer to stick as assas, so I dont realy ahve any choice in the matter). A boss with 10 itens on its table and 1 shield gives you a higher probability of getting that 1 shield tham 2 bosses with 21 itens on theyre loot table each of wich having 1 shield. So they can add 100 shields in the tier if the loot tables are too big its still better to have just 1 on a smaller loot table.

    Also since 10 mans only see 2 drops per boss the chance of seeing any specific iten you want dropping is basicaly non existant on masive loot tables like this one. Also since each slot has a lot of diferent pieces dropping form diferent bosses you will have cases of bosses dropping same slot itens for the same classes/spec on a 10 man repeatedly completly screwing the gearing (you could have for instance int plate legs dropping from 3 diferent bosses on any given week and you dont realy need more tham 1).
    Last edited by DakonBlackblade; 2013-02-14 at 03:06 PM.

  6. #46
    There could be a modifier on coin rolls that grant 10 man slightly higher chance to win an item, for all we know. Not that I expect there to be, of course, but I would much rather have this problem than the "hey I need this one weapon off this one boss...oh wait it didn't drop again...#$%#@$^ MORE GOLD FROM COIN ROLL" scenarios that I had to put up with until this past week (when I finally got some form of the empress mace, fortunately it was from reg mode and not LFR).

  7. #47
    Ra-Den has 46 items.


    WHAT

    Holy cow, I am all for loot variety but holy flaming tacos, Batman. This'll make gearing uh. Interesting.

    Heroic Recruitment -- Hersh's multi-PoV kill vids. -- Raids & Dungeons & Hunter kitty
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by DakonBlackblade View Post
    Seriously the choices have nothign to do with it, the probability of them dropping is all that matters (also its not realy a choice caus eits random, so if it drops youre stuck with it, like as I said above if agi 1 handers decide to drop in droves and no daggers do Im going combat altough Id prefer to stick as assas, so I dont realy ahve any choice in the matter). A boss with 10 itens on its table and 1 shield gives you a higher probability of getting that 1 shield tham 2 bosses with 21 itens on theyre loot table each of wich having 1 shield. So they can add 100 shields in the tier if the loot tables are too big its still better to have just 1 on a smaller loot table.

    Also since 10 mans only see 2 drops per boss the chance of seeing any specific iten you want dropping is basicaly non existant on masive loot tables like this one. Also since each slot has a lot of diferent pieces dropping form diferent bosses you will have cases of bosses dropping same slot itens for the same classes/spec on a 10 man repeatedly completly screwing the gearing (you could have for instance int plate legs dropping from 3 diferent bosses on any given week and you dont realy need more tham 1).

    Non existent? Wait what? It's 9,5% chance for item to drop (actually slightly off since items can't be the same) from 21 loot table. Two bosses give you... 19% chance! versus 20% (Although T14 bosses have more like 13-14 items on loot tables).

    It goes other way too.

  9. #49
    Brewmaster Cairm's Avatar
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    I like having options. Maybe more luck, but more chance of loot the more boss you kill.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    Non existent? Wait what? It's 9,5% chance for item to drop (actually slightly off since items can't be the same) from 21 loot table. Two bosses give you... 19% chance! versus 20% (Although T14 bosses have more like 13-14 items on loot tables).

    It goes other way too.
    You know 19% is less tham 20% right ? And the actual numbers are 21.1% chance of drop with 1 iten in 10 aprox (theres no reposition meaning that the second iten that drops is dropign from a total of 9 and not 10) and 19.5 % for the 2 bosses with 21 iten each scenario. Nonetheless the chance of you getting any specific iten is aprox 9.8% on the 21 itens loot table and 21.1% on the 10 loot table, meaning a smaler table gives you more tham double the chance of getting an iten that you actualy want, its not hard to see wich one is the best, the larger loot tabel scenario will give itens for the same slots alot more often, and every time you happen to get a drop that nobody on your 10 man roster can use its gona feel even worse than it does currently (and it feels terribad already).

    On a 25 man scenario this problem is much more manageable cause the boss drops 6 itens anyway eventualy the stuf you want will drop, most likely itll drop more tham once rare are the cases that a 25 man team dont see something dropping.

  11. #51
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Honestly, given all of the current circumstances in raiding right now OP, I shed not a single tear for you and your "plight". You took the path of least resistance and now you're complaining it's not rewarding you enough still.

    This is yet another reason why 25's needs greater incentive. Even when everything is even, 10-man guilds still gripe that they're getting the shorter end of the stick. It's laughable.

  12. #52
    I think it's too soon to start complaining before we see how it plays out.

    He's the first boss in the instance, so he's going to be getting killed a lot - this may actually be a really nice change, definitely glad to see them experimenting with loot distribution like this, it beats having a spirit ring as 2nd and 3rd BIS caster dps rings.

    Unless I'm mistaken, neither he nor Ra'den have any trinkets / weapons etc, so none of the loot is going to be gamebreaking.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    10-man guilds still gripe that they're getting the shorter end of the stick.
    Because they are.
    In 25 mans, 6 items drop. This gives more loot per person.
    In 25 mans, you have a larger sample size, meaning you will be less effected by RNG (see above, 3% chance any item from this boss doesn't drop in 10 weeks for 25s, 37% chance any item doesn't drop in 10s after 10 weeks).
    In 25 mans, you now have an increased chance of thunderforged gear, increasing the gap even more.
    ANd I must add. In 25 you will NEVER shard items on the first couple of weeks, which 10 mans will always do because of class/spec setup.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    I think it's too soon to start complaining before we see how it plays out.

    He's the first boss in the instance, so he's going to be getting killed a lot - this may actually be a really nice change, definitely glad to see them experimenting with loot distribution like this, it beats having a spirit ring as 2nd and 3rd BIS caster dps rings.

    Unless I'm mistaken, neither he nor Ra'den have any trinkets / weapons etc, so none of the loot is going to be gamebreaking.
    Pretty much every boss have 19 + loot tables on the tier and its worse on the tier token bosses because they ahve 15-16 itens table meaning its 3 tokens (from wich you get 1 on a 10 man) and another 12-13 itens from wich you only get 1 per kill, thats a 7.7% chance of you getting something specific and pretty much every tier token boss also drop either trinkets or weapons or both. If the loot tables are this big (they might not be cause its PTR and all) its gona be a nightmare for 10 mans and I suspect thats exactly what blizz wants.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    Because they are.
    I will quote Fenixdown again in case you cant read properly: "You took the path of least resistance"

    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    ANd I must add. In 25 you will NEVER shard items on the first couple of weeks, which 10 mans will always do because of class/spec setup.
    Thats only because we shard more items at the end. its called balance

  16. #56
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    25 man rewards need a heavy nerf, their content is already easier most of the time.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    25 man rewards need a heavy nerf, their content is already easier most of the time.
    create your own and than judge (or run 25 pug if its so easy). After switching to 25 from 10 (and raiding some 10 man before clearing on 25) I can tell you its equal if not harder to run 25, the 10 dies like nothing.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    In 25 mans, 6 items drop. This gives more loot per person.
    In 25 mans, you have a larger sample size, meaning you will be less effected by RNG (see above, 3% chance any item from this boss doesn't drop in 10 weeks for 25s, 37% chance any item doesn't drop in 10s after 10 weeks).
    In 25 mans, you now have an increased chance of thunderforged gear, increasing the gap even more.

    Its pretty dumb.
    Except each individual upgrade in a 25 man is less meaningful than a 10 man, and the number of tanks stays more or less the same as well.

    25 mans drop 6 pieces for a reason. It's not because blizzard wants to kill 10 mans or whatever.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukenukem View Post
    create your own and than judge (or run 25 pug if its so easy). After switching to 25 from 10 (and raiding some 10 man before clearing on 25) I can tell you its equal if not harder to run 25, the 10 dies like nothing.
    Not the 10 x 25 thing again... 25s allow for way more flexibility on the strats and stuf but are also alot harder to manage while 10 mans dont ofer any flexibility most of the time (fights like heroic will can eb terribad depending on your 10 man team class comp) but are easier to manage and organise, its pretty much balanced realy and this tier proved that, Blood Legion got World first Shek Zeer remember a 25 man guild beating Paragorn (which is widely considered the best guild in the world in whichever size) wich was raiding the suposedly easier size (10 mans).

  20. #60
    Jin'rokh ain't got shit on Raden, Consumer of Coins.

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