Jab Nerfed Again :D

[Bartolo]

That may be not be technically feasible, but a good way of untiying Uplift from ReM without breaking the 'uniqueness' of this synergy among healers would be to make Uplift a smart heal but still hitting a number of targets based on how many ReMs you currently have running? (Yes Affinitii, I was watching you ).

[DirewolfX]

Except those are smart heals, which Uplift is NOT.

It's 'smart-ish' becuase it's tied to Renewing Mist, which is nominally a smart heal. Improved logic to how ReM bounces would alleviate some of the 'issues' with Uplift. But realistically, in most situations where I need uplift, all the targets affected by uplift are taking damage (i.e. raid-wide damage, etc.) The only situation it's not great in is where 4-6 random people take damage and the rest of the raid is topped off.

I wonder how a spell that costs 1 chi and causes your ReMs to all shift to the lowest health targets in the raid would work.

[Totaltotemic]

That may be not be technically feasible, but a good way of untiying Uplift from ReM without breaking the 'uniqueness' of this synergy among healers would be to make Uplift a smart heal but still hitting a number of targets based on how many ReMs you currently have running? (Yes Affinitii, I was watching you ).

These are the kinds of fixes and changes we need, but with it winding down to most likely 2 weeks until the patch goes live, the chances of getting a good fix out onto the PTR before then is very low. More likely than not, 5.2 will go live with Mistweavers being very underwhelming and they'll just hotfix numbers up and down again to try and cram a broken kit into usability.

[Deleted]

Reduces the cooldown of your Thunder Focus Tea by 5 sec, down from 10 sec.

This is just a slap in the face lol

[Totaltotemic]

It's 'smart-ish' becuase it's tied to Renewing Mist, which is nominally a smart heal. Improved logic to how ReM bounces would alleviate some of the 'issues' with Uplift. But realistically, in most situations where I need uplift, all the targets affected by uplift are taking damage (i.e. raid-wide damage, etc.) The only situation it's not great in is where 4-6 random people take damage and the rest of the raid is topped off.

The problem is that there's an increasing amount of mechanics that hit "random targets" instead of raid-wide because that's too boring and predictable. Uplift is "smart" by nature of ReM being smart, but its intelligence decreases the further back in the timeline that specific ReM went onto that target. With TFT, most of the time half of our Uplift targets only have ReM on them because they happened to not be at full health 15-20 seconds ago, essentially making Uplift random. The only reason it's even good is because we can spam it while other healers take care of the people unfortunate enough for ReM to not choose them. If you take away its spammability, it's just Spinning Crane Kick with random target selection, but only usable once in a blue moon for a lot of mana.

Like I said earlier, Jab was nerfed so hard that Glyph of Uplift is now better than Jab/Jab/Uplift and spammable to boot. That wouldn't be bad except for the fact that we have to use ReM to get Uplift to work, which generates Chi, and we would have no other viable way to heal with Chi. They've screwed up the Chi game so badly at this point that I think Mistweavers would function better and even more fun if everything was just based off of mana.

[Deleted]

Eh, it's just going to be a game of jab->tp until ReM CD -> ReM -> Jab -> BoK and just healing with glyph of uplift when necessary or convenient. Also why doesn't expel harm cause the muscle memory effect yet?

[Totaltotemic]

Eh, it's just going to be a game of jab->tp until ReM CD -> ReM -> Jab -> BoK and just healing with glyph of uplift when necessary or convenient. Also why doesn't expel harm cause the muscle memory effect yet?

Jab --> TP will still cost 12k mana (before Ascendance and mana Tea, but still more expensive than live).

What I think will rise from the ashes of all of this is Spinning Crane Kick. It is, as of now, only 3,450 mana more than Jab and also causes Muscle Memory, and heals for a lot. SCK will undoubtedly almost completely replace any instance in which we would currently use Jab.

[Deleted]

causes Muscle Memory, and heals for a lot.

SCK procs muscle memory only if it hits 3 TARGETS, not heals 3 allies

No no there is more or less no way to do some correct heal atm on 5.2

[Deleted]

SCK only causes MM when it damages 3 targets.

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 07:21 PM ----------

Jab --> TP will still cost 12k mana (before Ascendance and mana Tea, but still more expensive than live).

What I think will rise from the ashes of all of this is Spinning Crane Kick. It is, as of now, only 3,450 mana more than Jab and also causes Muscle Memory, and heals for a lot. SCK will undoubtedly almost completely replace any instance in which we would currently use Jab.

Going in to next tier we should be able to garner enough spirit to support it, speaking of which - how are lowly geared mistweavers supposed to even do their jobs?

[DirewolfX]

They probably expect them to endure SooM chi generation and healing to support everything. Given that Jab now costs 6% and Uplift 8% or more... has anyone run numbers on Surging Mist yet? With mana back from tea, SuM is 7.8% mana (versus 6% for jab not used for TP/BoK), but heals for a lot more than Jab. If we are using a lot more TP due to the new FWing changes, it will be even cheaper.

Would you take a glyph that made Uplift smart heal 5-6 targets regardless of your Renewing Mist?

[Totaltotemic]

SCK procs muscle memory only if it hits 3 TARGETS, not heals 3 allies

No no there is more or less no way to do some correct heal atm on 5.2

Oh I misread that, that's incredibly dumb. So yeah, we have no way to do what we're supposed to do.

[WonderPoop]

Jab now costs 6% of Base Mana, up from 4.5%.

^ Most recent PTR update.

Is there a point to Fistweaving now? 6% mana is HUGE!

[DirewolfX]

Fistweaving gets 2% mana back on any TP or BoK affected by Muscle Memory, so FWing is fine. I think we're more concerned about actual healing, because it makes J/J/Uplift unsustainable and we don't really have a good alternative.

[Captaincrab]

Now that just sucks. This just proves they cant decide on what to do wiht monks.

Ya, they want you to actually use heals most of the time and have eminence be something you do when there is little healing required and damage gimmicks. Our other heals, while not something super crazy, are actually competitive. As long as eminence kept being efficient beyond damage gimmick fights, you'd be hard pressed to really do anything else.

They increased the damage part of eminence so when there's a damage buff or there is low healing required, we are still rewarded for doing so. We are just not expected to be jabbing if intense healing is needed and there isn't any buff.

[Tatuin]

Our actual heals is not that great, Soothing mist dont heal for much. Use Surginf Mist and you oom fast. SCK is very costy. Uplift you need Chi for, same wiht EnVm. And EnvM some other healers heal or absorb will take care of it befor EnvM get many ticks of.

[DirewolfX]

Edit: Crappy data in wowdb is crappy.

[Coraulten]

From what i've done on ptr so far pure fistweaving is viable mana wise.

[Deleted]

Well just tested everything:

- all the new formulas are just nothing of tooltip corrections. CJL or tier 30 talents do exactly same amount fo damage / pitiful and incredibly stupid heal ( yes, yes ZS still is a hot tickiang about 5k5 with 506 ilvl, that's just GREAT ). Chi wave still does pitifull 4X 30k heal, that's just pathetic

- with that fucking jab, our current lvie gameplay seems totally dead and gone ( perhaps we'll see a comeback with 16k + spirit unbuff in full t15 hero gear, but i even doubt about it )

- Soothing heals for 6 HPM and 0 dps, CJL heals for 5.6 HPM and does about 50k dps while channeled, so even thought the formula was just a trick, i still think there's something to check and have a look to


In conclusion to that glorious day : we're more or less totally screwed, devs do not play MW and don't have a clue to do with us

[DirewolfX]

Yeah, but there's no way it's going to be viable HPS-wise. We also need to be viable as pure healers or we'll only be brought in for gimmick fights.

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 04:29 PM ----------

Well just tested everything:

- all the new formulas are just nothing of tooltip corrections. CJL or tier 30 talents do exactly same amount fo damage / pitiful and incredibly stupid heal ( yes, yes ZS still is a hot tickiang about 5k5 with 506 ilvl, that's just GREAT ). Chi wave still does pitifull 4X 30k heal, that's just pathetic

CJL was pretty obviously a tooltip change, since it's 6 ticks and they multiplied the amount by 6 to reflect the wording of X damage over Y seconds, instead of X' damage/second for Y seconds. What is your spell power on the PTR? It could be very low since they wiped enchants and gems during character transfer.

- with that fucking jab, our current lvie gameplay seems totally dead and gone ( perhaps we'll see a comeback with 16k + spirit unbuff in full t15 hero gear, but i even doubt about it )

I think this is intended... hopefully we get a viable alternative. Since there wasn't an end of season pvp blog today, it looks like there are at least 3 more weeks before the patch.

- Soothing heals for 6 HPM and 0 dps, CJL heals for 5.6 HPM and does about 50k dps while channeled, so even thought the formula was just a trick, i still think there's something to check and have a look to

Interesting... are you counting statue heals from Soothing? Also, Soothing is targeted and CJL is going to be random eminence healing. Plus you can't do an instant Surging Mist or Enveloping Mist from CJL. I'm not sure it'll become a core part of our gameplay, but it'll be a decent option for ranged 'fistweaving'.

[Deleted]

i did the test with 506 ilvl, gemmed and enchanted ( 26200 spell, 52500 AP , 11 500 spirit Unbuffed )

My exact numbers are: chi burst =64/65 k
chi wave = 29 / 31 k
Zen sphere: 5700 ( !!!!! that's so fucking funny, it's like some Previous extension hot )

CJL : 42k /tick --> 12k8 heal X 2 / tick with eminence
SM : 8k8 heal X2 / tick

They need to change some things to let us make SOME ( not lots) uplift while fistweaving and let us have some real chi generation while MW

For FW i was thinking about some stackable buff given by jab , after 10 stacks ( given by 10 jab, for exemple) you have a free uplift ( free from chi or mana depending on wiether you glyph it or not). this could help fistweaving to anticipate burst healing and have some aoe heal, without any abuse of uplift.

For MW, well all is said, we need a fixed chi generation on Soothing ( i'd like, for exemple, having the choice beetween 2 cheap channeled filler, as MW, CJl for eminence healing and dps but low chi generation, versus SM with no dps but a constat and stable chi generation)

Well, we'll see in next episode