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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post




    Uh... well, either something is screwing with my mana costs (no buffs on) or something entirely different is going on here. Any input from anyone else as to what their Surging Mist costs on live?

    As a note, I did cast the spell each time to make sure it was costing the proper amount of mana. I'm kind of at a loss here.
    Yeah mines 26,400 by chance do you have the glyph?

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Yeah mines 26,400 by chance do you have the glyph?
    I tested it with the glyph on/off. It's 26,400 with it off, 24,000 with it on. The 2-piece also reduces each by their respective amounts.

  3. #523
    Well thats neat, intentional or glitch you think? And is it just tooltip or actual cost?

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Coraulten View Post
    Well thats neat, intentional or glitch you think?
    Almost positive that it's an oversight from when they nerfed it in 5.1 or a hotfix (forget when it happened). It's the same deal as Jab, different spell IDs and they only changed the mana cost on one of them. I'm betting that no one noticed because it was ridiculously expensive anyways, but when we started to explore other areas of chi generation, some special person figured out that a 21k mana Surging Mist was kind of powerful for chi generation.

  5. #525
    The glyphed version just survived the 10% nerf earlier on I guess
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  6. #526
    Priest 5.9% of base mana (17.700)
    Sham 6.86% of base mana (20.580)
    Pal 7.56% of base mana (22.680)
    Druide 5.94% of base mana (17.820)
    Monk 8.8% of base mana (26.400), with again no explanation

  7. #527
    lol

    Well this is awkward

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:39 PM ----------

    Also, it does have an explanation because it generates 1 chi so if you have 25% crit its value will be something around 22,650 mana. Could have a lower base mana cost when comparing to other classes but it might be explained because it's instant with soothing mist. o.O

  8. #528
    Titan apepi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonde View Post
    lol

    Well this is awkward

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:39 PM ----------

    Also, it does have an explanation because it generates 1 chi so if you have 25% crit its value will be something around 22,650 mana. Could have a lower base mana cost when comparing to other classes but it might be explained because it's instant with soothing mist. o.O
    If you are going to use surging mist...just go ahead and just use healing sphere, way more healing efficient.
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  9. #529
    Field Marshal Solemnity's Avatar
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    I haven't looked into this much, but the Surging Mist change is pretty expected considering the mana return resulting from muscle memory.

    I really like how they filled in the gaps of fistweaving with muscle memory, thinking that they would make this healer that could diminish it's healing to do not amazing dps, but something worth mentioning. Like I said I haven't looked into any of this much, but they're just getting some mistweavers to come out of their shell about being a true melee healer (dpsing.. thing). Jab Jab Uplift isn't an attractive play-style that uses a boss or mob as an indirect means of healing. Getting out of Jab Jab Uplift would be nice, however Soothing Mist is unreliable and will waste your time, executing full on fistweaving is mana suicide (used to at least) that gives you moderately low output. They've made it better, but Uplift is still our only true and reliable healing method that flat up requires Chi we aren't getting in a graceful way. Glyph of Uplift would make it feel more fine-tuned and full of options, but then you sacrifice chi expenditure and the mana cost of it is very unattractive last time I checked. I feel like there's some secret spell or ability that's still missing that links all of this together. Something that would bridge ranged healing (uplift) and fistweaving (punching buttons), so it's not a hard set option with mana suicide or a pansy jab fest. [One in which Glyph of Uplift failed to deliver to me ]

    Something else is that I feel so completely alone against the other healers. Talking about when to use cooldowns? Revival is what, 15%ish of someone's health? Not exactly high on the cooldown leader boards for a 3 minute cooldown padding button. Life Cocoon is gone seconds after it is cast, usually demanded by a tank (where the increased healing is basically useless). Zen Meditation is a personal cooldown on most fights. You're doing healing assignments? Oh I'll be blanketing the raid, once again. We're having healer problems on the tanks? I can dump some chi into them. No I won't single target heal you. (~9% mana per surging mist coming up, don't forget to add in soothing mist). I feel so separated and alone in my healer party. The only thing we could ever congregate on is dispels. Not exactly a bonding experience.

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    Last edited by Solemnity; 2013-02-25 at 07:53 PM.
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  10. #530
    Unfortunately the current implementation of muscle memory completely atomizes fistweaving, and it's cost doesn't make the switch worth it. Revival is fine.
    old mistweaver probably still better than u

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post




    Uh... well, either something is screwing with my mana costs (no buffs on) or something entirely different is going on here. Any input from anyone else as to what their Surging Mist costs on live?

    As a note, I did cast the spell each time to make sure it was costing the proper amount of mana. I'm kind of at a loss here.

    Found it: Glyphing Surging Mist reduces the mana cost to 8%. If you look, the wording of the Surging Mist spell that was changed on PTR is the glyped version "heals the lowest.." It seems like this change is fixing the glyphed version to be the proper amount. The better question is, how did we not know about this?
    mines 26400 on live with no tier
    and 24000 with glyph

    edit: and forgot i was on page 26 so this is totally irrelevant to the current discussion i think lol
    Last edited by todzilla85; 2013-02-25 at 08:16 PM.

  12. #532
    All I want at this point is an explanation.

    Why are they doing this? How are these changes effectively accomplishing the goal?

  13. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by todzilla85 View Post
    mines 26400 on live with no tier
    and 24000 with glyph

    edit: and forgot i was on page 26 so this is totally irrelevant to the current discussion i think lol
    This is why I said Surging mist cost the same as jab then some said it costed a little more and I was confused.
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  14. #534
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solemnity View Post
    Something else is that I feel so completely alone against the other healers. Talking about when to use cooldowns? Revival is what, 15%ish of someone's health? Not exactly high on the cooldown leader boards for a 3 minute cooldown padding button. Life Cocoon is gone seconds after it is cast, usually demanded by a tank (where the increased healing is basically useless). Zen Meditation is a personal cooldown on most fights. You're doing healing assignments? Oh I'll be blanketing the raid, once again. We're having healer problems on the tanks? I can dump some chi into them. No I won't single target heal you. (~9% mana per surging mist coming up, don't forget to add in soothing mist). I feel so separated and alone in my healer party. The only thing we could ever congregate on is dispels. Not exactly a bonding experience.
    Revival is really underrated. It doesn't have the raw healing of Tranquility, Divine Hymn or Healing Tide, but it is instant, giving it an interesting niche. You get to keep healing where a holy priest or druid would need to channel for a 5-6 seconds. The healing is applied all at once, so you can use it in a pinch to stabilize the raid before a big hit (like before a Crush on Garalon if pheremone stacks were high). It's also a dispel, which makes it fantastic on at least one fight this tier (Spirit Kings Meng--pop it at 90ish insanity during reflect to instantly clear everyone's reflect DoT; I also like it during a transition from day to night on Tsulong if a lot of people get the DoT since things often get hairy there or if a bunch of silly people all pop a cobalt mine at once outside of cobalt petrification on dogs).

    Life Cocoon is much more useful since the buff. It's good as both a reactive and a preventative button. You can use it like a Lay on Hands to basically 'heal' a tank from 1% to practically full, giving the tank healer breathing room to get the tanks actual health up while the bubble takes 2+ hits from the boss (it's now well over a 400k bubble maybe even 500k depending on your gear, and most bosses don't hit for much over 200k). The only time it's not as strong is when you want to prevent many large but not massive hits over an extended period of time, such as if a boss gets a temporary enrage-type buff (Mimiron's plasma thing in phase 1 comes to mind).

    Also, the Surging thing isn't a (new) nerf, it's already like that on live for me. Could be a fix to the glyphed version not having the increased mana on live? Otherwise just a tooltip change.

  15. #535
    I think it's about time to close this thread down and move to new ones when people can't be bothered to read even the same page with the exact explanation for the Surging Mist change we saw datamined. The answer is right there at the top of the page, or the last post on the previous one, yet at least 3 people on this very page have skimmed over it.

    There's very little discussion going on in here anymore, mostly because people stop reading once threads get past 5 pages or so, and we're on 27.

  16. #536
    Bloodsail Admiral Manabomb's Avatar
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    Okay so waking up to this was a roller coaster of mind boggle. Granted, after some quick napkin math and checking a bunch of stuff out just to be sure, I'm happy to state that yay, it's just bringing the glyphed surging to what surging already costs. So there's that. Still, I kind of wish they would release a "what you should worry about now" post like they did with disc priests for mw monks. Then again, it's obvious they want us casting soothing mists if we are going to use uplift to raid heal, but it would be nice to hear SOMETHING from them save for utter silence.

    Or I should say something of use instead of answering twitters of questions they already made perfectly clear their stance on,

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 11:33 PM ----------

    Alright, even more interesting things to note. If you look here and scroll down to MW monk changes, it has been updated to include the change to soothing mists, but we still have no datamined data even with the newest build to suggest they have done anything. Probably going to wait for Mr.Street to post about if/when or how we will see it implemented.
    Last edited by Manabomb; 2013-02-25 at 11:40 PM.
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  17. #537
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Soothing Mists now generates chi more consistently and average generation rate is slightly higher.
    What does that even mean? They reduced the random variation? People that have done PTR testing today still say that it's possible to go the full 9 seconds and only get 1 chi. That's not consistent at all.

  18. #538
    I wonder how long it's going to take them to notice fistweaver monks will be using agility 2h weapons.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Soothing Mists now generates chi more consistently and average generation rate is slightly higher.
    What does that even mean? They reduced the random variation? People that have done PTR testing today still say that it's possible to go the full 9 seconds and only get 1 chi. That's not consistent at all.
    I think they are lying tbh, i always get at least 2 chi per soothing mists. However i rarely see 4 and never seen 5 so I think it could be a downside tbh when rng gods favor you

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by shotz View Post
    I wonder how long it's going to take them to notice fistweaver monks will be using agility 2h weapons.
    umm, never? because thats just wrong and doesnt work. you gain attack power equal to 200% of your spell power, and no longer gain attack power from any other sources. so why would you be doing that?
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