Last edited by Dreyo; 2013-02-26 at 08:26 PM.
Who gets to say how much slight is? Going from 30 to 35 seems "slight" to me. Even 37. Particularly when people have been asking for things like bringing it up to 50% or higher.
gnorrior has been talking about Renewing Mist's huge potential for healing in 5.2. Relying on that and Chi Torpedo essentially leaves us at WotLK Resto Druid level, can't save anyone's life but acts as a +Hp5 aura to the entire raid. On fights with big bursts of healing needed, Renewing Mist won't save anyone. On fights with big bursts and people being spread out, SCK and Chi Torpedo won't save anyone. We need to be able to use Uplift, and we can't use Uplift when we're relying on RNG to fuel a multi-target heal with RNG targets. The chance of being able to land it when you need it on people that need it more than 2-3 times in a row (barring Chi Brew, as raid-wide damage usually happens much more often than every 90 seconds) is extremely small. A huge increase to Soothing Mist is nice and all, but it's still RNG. Guaranteed after 7 whole ticks, yes, but still RNG in the 2-3 second window when real healing matters.
20% increase in Soothing chi gen doesn't seem unreasonable to me, is what I'm saying. If they're really asking us to use Soothing to power Uplift instead of Jab, then it needs to be a good bit higher than live. Going from 30% to 32% isn't going to cut it.
And yes, it is RNG, but this new implementation should significantly reduce the "drought" streaks that are what people actually dislike about RNG. Nobody complains about RNG when you get four chi in four ticks.
Okey, as this mechanic isn't that easy to math out, I wrote a little programm to simulate it.
The result, after 10 million simulated Soothing Mist channels (at 9 ticks each):
Average Chance to gain Chi: 34.02%
Chi gained: 0. Chance: 0.0%
Chi gained: 1. Chance: 1.4%
Chi gained: 2. Chance: 25.2%
Chi gained: 3. Chance: 45.1%
Chi gained: 4. Chance: 22.9%
Chi gained: 5. Chance: 4.9%
Chi gained: 6. Chance: 0.5%
Chi gained: 7. Chance: 0.03%
Chi gained: 8. Chance: 0.0008%
Chi gained: 9. Chance: 0.00001%
as we can see, the amount of Chi gained is highly concentrated around the middle. in about 93% of the cases, you will be getting 2-4 Chi.
This is a significant improvement to how it is handled on live!
ps: as a side note, this numbers also reflect the ingame tests Chimerian did, so I we can safely assume it's correct
The problem with the RNG isn't 4+ seconds without chi. It's going 2 seconds without chi.
To compare to the sheer power of Jab on live, getting 4 chi in 4 ticks is exactly the same rate as Jab. 2 chi in 4 ticks is a 50% reduction in number of Uplifts we could do. That's a lot. If we were only 10-20% ahead on fights like Garalon where we get to abuse it and roughly average on fights where we don't, what happens when we get only half of those? That's the best case scenario, that's what a 50% tick chance on Soothing would give. It's not about how much stronger the current Soothing is than the previous one (except when it comes to incredibly awkward tank healing where you get more chi than you can spend on Enveloping, which is why I don't like a super high one), it's about Soothing vs Jab. Even at a 50% proc rate, Soothing loses hard. If we're going to get to use it less, then we need the 5.0 Uplift back where we can affect a great deal of people because cutting it by a lot in 5.2 will just result in us being good on aura-damage fights and awful on ones without constant damage as opposed to great on aura-damage and good on burst damage.
Anyway, it's not too hard to calculate the probability; I wrote a simple recursive function to solve it, if anyone wants to check it for mistakes:
chi = [0, 0, ... 0] // 0-value array for # of ticks
calcChi(0.15, 1, 0, 0, ticks, chi)
function calcChi(chance, curProb, curChi, curTicks, maxTicks, chi)
if (curTicks < maxTicks)
if (chance > 1)
chance = 1
if (chance < 1)
calcChi(chance + 0.15, curProb * (1 - chance), curChi, curTicks + 1, maxTicks, chi)
calcChi(0.15, curProb * chance, curChi + 1, curTicks + 1, maxTicks, chi)
chi[curChi] = chi[curChi] + curProb
Maggot, were you using 15% chance to gain a Chi on the initial tick, or 30% chance?
---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 04:49 PM ----------
- If you can use the healing, Surging Mist is probably better than jab for immediate chi.
- If you need chi right now, you can use one jab for a chi, then bank the muscle memory to use within the next 30 seconds on a TP from ReM/EH/SooM chi to get 4% mana back.
Or, you should still continue channeling Soothing, and 'waste' your mana for guaranteed Chi at the same rate and cost as Jab, using Surging, while still gaining chi from Soothing.
If Jab = Surging, which it does now (almost), then under no circumstances should you Jab when you don't plan on using Muscle Memory.
This idea that Surging should be a button worth pressing...I can't disagree with the idea.
Also those where all independant applications of Soothing (9 ticks, then start from the beginning again), I don't know if a second channeled SM remembers the state of the previous SM, I guess not.
ups, know I notice that I ignored that fact when calculating the average Chi gain, so maybe that is flawed.
Yeah...I think the next step in theory/testing is to see whether the chi counter resets or not with a new cast. Might be nice to ask GC actually.
having to recast SoM every time it gives chi cause it will be 15% higher then not doing so will be damn pain in the ass.
It's also empirically testable. The expected value for number of ticks per chi is 2.9391475, so over 1000 casts (9000 ticks), you'd expect to generate ~3062 chi if it remembers the last % value. Using the numbers I calculated with my function, the expected chi per cast is 2.8344023436 or ~2,834 chi if it forgets the last cast. The numbers given by Chimerian would give an expected value of 3180 chi over 1000 casts. Using the numbers from TrueMaggot's simulation estimates we'd get 3064 chi over 1000 casts (it looks like you 'remembered' the value between casts?)
Since TrueMaggot's numbers are a lot closer to Chimerian's tested values and that's a lot closer to what we'd expect if it remembers the current % between casts than my calculations for each cast being an independent event, I'd wager that it DOES remember the current % chance for a chi between casts.
Disclaimer: More testing required.
Guys is it not stated that SCK also procs Muscle Memory? If so then SCK, TP/BoK, SCK, Uplift, TP/BoK doesnt seem so bad with a 8% mana refund, considering you are within melee range. I could be way off base here but I'm sure thats what the patch notes suggests.
"Muscle Memory is a new passive ability for Mistweaver Monks. Successful Jab and Spinning Crane Kick which damages at least 3 enemies cause Muscle Memory. Muscle Memory causes the Monk's next Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick to deal 150% more damage and restore 4% mana."
I suppose then Haste becomes a huge factor as the channel time is around 2 seconds even if the chi is guaranteed. Which I guess brings it in line with the current Soothing chi gen calculations.
I think I've just been dumb right here.
Last edited by Garricakes; 2013-02-27 at 12:10 AM.
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