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  1. #121
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    To be fair, they're getting tons of blue posts because blizz is nerfing the poop out of them...

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    To be fair, they're getting tons of blue posts because blizz is nerfing the poop out of them...
    Totally radical nerfs, I bet if they nerfed half of our heals by like 70% we'd get blue posts like that explaining those changes as well. Wait...
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  3. #123
    We got similar nerfs/changes to what disc are now getting (did not go live yet, I bet it will change) and we were barely granted 3 lines of bad explanation.

    The truth is Disc priest is OP so that it trivializes 10-man and everyone can kill bosses. Disc priest is the most played healing spec, the huge majority of 10-man raids HAVE a disc priest as one of their 2 main healers. By touching disc priests, Blizz are afraid they'd loose clients; By changing monks, they can only please other healers so they don't give a sh*** about wasting time justifying why and how.
    Last edited by Hyjaljerk; 2013-02-15 at 10:40 PM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyjaljerk View Post
    We got similar nerfs/changes to what disc are now getting (did not go live yet, I bet it will change) and we were barely granted 3 lines of bad explanation.
    I have posted several times in that thread about math directly contradicting the notions that a Soothing --> TP rotation would be not be mana positive, that increasing Jab's mana cost would actually make us use other spells instead, or that SCK is a decent heal compared to other healers or our own toolkit. What do we get in response? "NO WE DON'T WANT YOU TO USE JAB FOR UPLIFT NERF JAB NERF JAB NERF JAB"

  5. #125
    I think he means mana negative in a manner that Tiger Palm + Soothing is < not casting at all. It might still be positive overall but it would be slower than standing there like a nit.
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  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuin View Post
    GC in blue post


    Does he knows SKC heals for shit?
    Well i think this explains the problem...

    SKC in a 25man raid will heal for a little over 1k per tick
    Surging has good enough healing but if your using it beyond spot healing when utterly necessary your going to oom so fast you wont see 50%.
    I love the extra "or anything that grants chi" since there is actualy nothing else.

    as for how to deal with 5.2? stack regen and keep doing jab-jab uplift because we just dont have the tools to do anything else.
    I had high hopes for Zen Sphere on AoE fights, with it exploding somewhat reliably you can throw it around a few seconds before it starts and 10s later or when people drop low they will go off but the healing is probably to low after the last set of nerfs to it.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    I think he means mana negative in a manner that Tiger Palm + Soothing is < not casting at all. It might still be positive overall but it would be slower than standing there like a nit.
    No, ignoring Spirit and passive regeneration, with the new model the mana returned from Mana Tea + Ascension + Tiger Palm is more mana per Chi than what Soothing costs to generate. I could spell out the math here too if you'd like, it's not that complicated, but it is a fact.

  8. #128
    Gaining 3 chi/10s and then gaining a slight mana increase from this...hardly seems like an issue to me, due to duration...however it allowing us to spend more mana on the vastly more expensive jabx2/uplift during any time it's remotely needed is a possibility.
    On the other hand, expel harm + TP is a much more sizeable mana gain/time spent.
    For soothing: costs 7% mana (just assuming 10 ticks), then return 6% from tp and 3% from tea, or 2% net mana positive without using ascension or crit. However, spread over thirteen seconds (with TP's included) makes it something like .15%/s, or .77%/5s, which is...actually pretty absurd from sustainability standpoint (though extremely low HPS.)
    For EH: 2.5%, 2% return + 1% return, .5% mana return for a self-heal/TP. Seems pretty good to me guys.

    Actually looking at that now...With gear scaling I feel like our sustainability is going to be nearly akin to 5.1 (before nerf) levels. Our throughput will go down though, which due to the RNG nature of our heals, I don't feel like is acceptable at all....ugh its 5.1 all over again.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    No, ignoring Spirit and passive regeneration, with the new model the mana returned from Mana Tea + Ascension + Tiger Palm is more mana per Chi than what Soothing costs to generate. I could spell out the math here too if you'd like, it's not that complicated, but it is a fact.
    Yes but then we won't have chi for uplift and we would suck at healing.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    No, ignoring Spirit and passive regeneration, with the new model the mana returned from Mana Tea + Ascension + Tiger Palm is more mana per Chi than what Soothing costs to generate. I could spell out the math here too if you'd like, it's not that complicated, but it is a fact.
    I apologize, didn't do any math but I was a little busy trying to get my tick calculating function working for the spreadsheet down there. That does seem pretty crazy, not sure how viable it'll be given it'll do laughable healing though. Maybe they'll do something interesting with Soothing Mist number wise.
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  11. #131
    Yes but then we won't have chi for uplift and we would suck at healing.
    The problem here is not that everyone thinks the only way to get Chi is to Jab, its that everyone thinks the only way to heal is to Uplift.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    The problem here is not that everyone thinks the only way to get Chi is to Jab, its that everyone thinks the only way to heal is to Uplift.
    But it is.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    The problem here is not that everyone thinks the only way to get Chi is to Jab, its that everyone thinks the only way to heal is to Uplift.
    So what do heal last phase HC empress with? Night phase HC Tsulong? Last phase HC Protectors? Some of the hardest fights to heal are aoe fights/phases and our only tool there is uplift, esp in 5.2 where our lvl 30 talents cant be used.

    I wouldnt mind them nerfing jab/jab/uplift if there was another good way to get chi other then jab and a way to aoe heal other then uplift.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I wouldnt mind them nerfing jab/jab/uplift if there was another good way to get chi other then jab and a way to aoe heal other then uplift.
    This is the core of the problem. Nerfing Jab is nerfing Mistweavers. They're trying to alter our behavior and spell selection, but we're leaning so hard on Jab that even nerfed it'll STILL be our best option.

  15. #135
    So what do heal last phase HC empress with? Night phase HC Tsulong? Last phase HC Protectors? Some of the hardest fights to heal are aoe fights/phases and our only tool there is uplift, esp in 5.2 where our lvl 30 talents cant be used.

    I wouldnt mind them nerfing jab/jab/uplift if there was another good way to get chi other then jab and a way to aoe heal other then uplift.
    Renewing Mists casts, Chi Brew (or other Chi-generating talents), SCK for anything you can stack the raid for. You don't need to top off the raid with Uplift to be competitive. ReM does a lot of healing on its own. And if you absolutely need Chi, you'll still have Jab. Idk if Surging Mists is going to become a more efficient Chi generator than Jab, but perhaps 25m healers might even look at the Surging Mists glyph for situations where you need reliable Chi coupled with strong AOE healing.
    Last edited by Felade; 2013-02-16 at 01:17 AM.

  16. #136
    That makes perfect sense, just put Renewing Mists on everyone, why didn't we think of that?




    Seriously though, we're not good on things like Heroic Empress as it is, nerfing literally the only way we can heal a spread-out fight with lots of damage is a joke.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    but perhaps 25m healers might even look at the Surging Mists glyph for situations where you need reliable Chi coupled with strong AOE healing.
    What? Seriously, what?

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    Renewing Mists casts, Chi Brew (or other Chi-generating talents), SCK for anything you can stack the raid for. You don't need to top off the raid with Uplift to be competitive. ReM does a lot of healing on its own. And if you absolutely need Chi, you'll still have Jab. Idk if Surging Mists is going to become a more efficient Chi generator than Jab, but perhaps 25m healers might even look at the Surging Mists glyph for situations where you need reliable Chi coupled with strong AOE healing.
    Might want to look into the class a little more than brushing over the spells on wowhead.
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  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    That makes perfect sense, just put Renewing Mists on everyone, why didn't we think of that?




    Seriously though, we're not good on things like Heroic Empress as it is, nerfing literally the only way we can heal a spread-out fight with lots of damage is a joke.
    how are we weak on heroic empress wut o.o


    if they nerfed jab to 18k (33% increase from 13500, if thats what the internal build is, we don't really know at this pont), then it's highly possible SoM/SuM would be more efficient way to gather chi atleast midfight. (that is more a statement of how large of a nerf it is, than to how "good" SoM/SuM is.)

  20. #140
    Admittedly I am not up on all the different ways Blizz has tried to change our spells, but what about something like this?

    Soothing Mists channeled to completion (or say 2-3 seconds) gives you a stack of soothing mist. this is not a buff just a count.

    A second cast (no other spell in between thus maintaining your stack counter) of soothing mists causes your spell to hit your target (can be diff this time from the last cast) and jump to one additional target. similar to chain heal for shaman. this also doubles your already crappy chance of getting chi.

    This could even be done for a 3rd stack/jump if you wanted. up to a maximum of 3 targets per cast/channel.

    As long as you did not cast another spell while your stacks were maintained (say they drop off if you dont cast soothing mist again within 10 sec) you can keep casting soothing mist like this for up to 3 targets hit (2 jumps). Your initial target could change at each cast as you are not casting a different spell. It would be kind of a cross between soothing mists channeling, chain heal hopping and druids ability to have rejuv (small low duration hot) on more than one target at a time.

    Obviously the hop range would be similar to chain heal and smart just like it is. short duration and not overly strong like a rejuv, but hit more than one target... unlike the weak single target heal it is right now.

    this would add a new way to use soothing mist to gain chi, without the threat of over usage. no healer is going to sit there and spam that over and over more than a couple times as it just doesnt heal for that much per tick. However, you do get faster chi generation by increasing the chance for chi per jump.

    once you cast an uplift or any other spell, pop, there goes your stacks and you have to build them up again if you want.

    in essence you still have the initial RNG of chi generation that blizz seems to want to keep, however you reward the healer that wants to risk channeling another time.

    I think you could still allow the use of surging mist or enveloping mist to be cast without losing your stacks and ability to have soothing jump.... as long as they were cast while channeling soothing mists like we do now.


    I realize this is not totally thought out and polished, but I think it would be a cool idea and a reason to drop out of fistweaving for some range heals without changing things too much. Not like creating an entirely new concept.

    anyway, just some thoughts.

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