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  1. #601
    Note that SCK needs to DAMAGE 3 targets not heal for Muscle Memory to kick in, aka it wont on 90% of the bosses.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by ThaNinja View Post
    SCK needs to be in a position where it actually hits 3 people, so not always viable
    It has to hit three enemies to proc MM. If it hits 3 allies but not 3 enemies it won't proc MM so it'll only be useful during aoe.

  3. #603
    Ugh.. GC just replied to one of those idiots saying fistweavers should be using 2H agi weapons.. sigh

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Courierrawr View Post
    Ugh.. GC just replied to one of those idiots saying fistweavers should be using 2H agi weapons.. sigh
    Well, he doesn't know shit about monks so he just replies to clueless questions to make us think he cares about our class. Pathetic.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Courierrawr View Post
    Ugh.. GC just replied to one of those idiots saying fistweavers should be using 2H agi weapons.. sigh
    There's a ridiculous noise to actual signal ratio in the Monk community, partially due to being the new class. I've pointed out several times on this forum that people have extreme difficulties separating when is just someone's theory from actual mathematical or empirical evidence. The reason why 90% of the Monk questions he fields are stupid ones are because 90% of the questions people ask him are stupid ones. Thankfully it's a bit better here, but every other thread I walk into has some kind of factual error in it. It's hard to get meaningful feedback out when we're wrong about half of the things we talk about at a fundamental "how it actually works" level.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Okay, now THIS sticks out. Monks are blanket throughput healers, in the style that most of us play them as, and I think it's entirely possible that a lot of our healing is going to overheal due to disc priests that now will be registered as actual healing. Reduce the blanket preventers, and the blanket healers will get a lot of work for free.

    (now, whether those numbers on the meter are actually useful is another story)
    Someone has to do that healing, and if we're dying before enrage, then as far as I'm concerned it's a healing problem. Whether or not its because people are standing in shit or not, if you need more healing, healers have to step it up or you need another healer [people will improve over time, during progression you can't expect zero mistakes as people learn fights, and healing through mistakes is a very real possibility and being able to do it is important to making every attempt count for more]. If monks blanket throughput is significantly higher than others, than you might be able to cut out a healer by adding one of us. When it comes to it, all of the healing which is evident on healing meters is significant in terms of raids, unless a specific person, group of people, or mechanic is dying/dying/killing people, respectively.

    Having the easiest time and least preparation (well, most preparation but we ALWAYS do it anyway) for blanket healing, means monks will automatically pick up a lot of healing with no extra work/thought, as we have amazing heal sniping capabilities (instant uplift, CT, ReM always being on people, SCK ticking every .66s~, 1s global allowing faster reactions, etc.) Whether that's more or less important "sniping" also correlates to being able to respond to healing faster. Which we clearly are better at than the others. We just lack control, which the other healers pretty much all have.

    Anyway, I think that's a strong possibility as to why I was so high on meters, since I didn't have to change anything and ReM picked it up on its own. Where that puts us on the scheme of things? Well if similar throughput is required to what my raid needed (ala unless we're doing things really wrong) then I think monk raw throughput (esp. being so cheap) will be very strong. Of course, we are (and will continue to be) extremely weak on fights where spot healing is required due to eminence range and the reality that most spread fights involve ranged being very far away, ala eminence will not be an effective spot heal most of the times that it matters. So, welcome to the niche, we dominate what we do, struggle to do the rest. Good luck to you all.

    As for soothing, I'm glad someone else is testing it, since I hate the spell and won't need to use my time now XD

    Edit: I agree with totaltotemic, at least from a "hardcore raiding vs. playing a class for fun" perspective. Both are valid viewpoints, but often the second doesn't have enough information to make the right decisions/feedback that the first has. But that's never going to go away. I'm surprised he didn't take my post (I tried to be informative in it) and misquote a few parts of it where I was a little less rational or logical/clear and then discredit my entire post. But I suppose I get to keep laughing at others (and myself) for asking stupid questions.
    Last edited by Astraios; 2013-02-27 at 01:23 AM.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Garricakes View Post
    Yeah its true but if I am honest, if my class is perfect for every fight then I will get bored. The fun is working around it the best you can. Unless youre in a hardcore guild and you get benched for it.
    oh I agree, its about adapting, which is why I didn't want to play disc priest at all for this tier, was ridiculous at points
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  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Courierrawr View Post
    Ugh.. GC just replied to one of those idiots saying fistweavers should be using 2H agi weapons.. sigh
    Forgive me for seeing something different, or asking a question. My tooltips, and character sheet suggest it will be worth doing.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-26 at 09:54 PM ----------

    Just an interesting thought, since GC replied to my post, others have been testing it, and getting more damage from using an agility weapon.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    Average Chance to gain Chi: 34.02%

    Chi gained: 0. Chance: 0.0%
    Chi gained: 1. Chance: 1.4%
    Chi gained: 2. Chance: 25.2%
    Chi gained: 3. Chance: 45.1%
    Chi gained: 4. Chance: 22.9%
    Chi gained: 5. Chance: 4.9%
    Chi gained: 6. Chance: 0.5%
    Chi gained: 7. Chance: 0.03%
    Chi gained: 8. Chance: 0.0008%
    Chi gained: 9. Chance: 0.00001%
    for sake of clarification: those above posted values are all under the assumption that SM remembers the tick state of the previous SM.
    I ran another simulation showing the results if SM does NOT remember, i.E. the first tick of a new SM channel is always 15%.
    these are the results:


    Average Chi gain per Tick: 31.5%

    Chi gained: 0. Chance: 0.0%
    Chi gained: 1. Chance: 3.2%
    Chi gained: 2. Chance: 34.1%
    Chi gained: 3. Chance: 42.5%
    Chi gained: 4. Chance: 16.9%
    Chi gained: 5. Chance: 3.0%
    Chi gained: 6. Chance: 0.23%
    Chi gained: 7. Chance: 0.01%
    Chi gained: 8. Chance: 0.0004%
    Chi gained: 9. Chance: 0.00001%

    Now these results are significantly different from what Chimarians sample provided, whereas the old results (assuming SM has a memory) where quite similar, so we can assume that SM does remember.
    I really hope this is the fact, so we don't have to game Chi procc chance by canceling after Chi ticks near the end of an SM... would be anoying

  10. #610
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    Now these results are significantly different from what Chimarians sample provided, whereas the old results (assuming SM has a memory) where quite similar, so we can assume that SM does remember.
    I really hope this is the fact, so we don't have to game Chi procc chance by canceling after Chi ticks near the end of an SM... would be anoying
    Cool, that confirms the math I did on the previous page. I'm pretty certain that SM remembers, assuming Chimerian's sample is accurate (and the numbers look pretty close to your simulation, so I'd guess it does).

  11. #611
    So spam clicking SM is still better healing and generation, thought they were going to nail 2 birds with one stone by making it reset but I guess not...
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  12. #612
    Well spamming our chi generator to spend more mana should be an acceptable way to ramp up healing/mana cost, imo, so not that bad. Keep in mind that using a global on SoM reduces ability to react if you were to get 2 chi (you'd be on global, etc), so it isn't exactly free either.It does significantly reduce the power of haste though, I would assume? Not sure though, but I doubt we could ever get more than the 2 ticks/second that we get by spamming it.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    So spam clicking SM is still better healing and generation, thought they were going to nail 2 birds with one stone by making it reset but I guess not...
    Spam clicking will only be better if your GCD is lower than the tick interval, which I'm pretty sure it's not.

  14. #614
    Does the SoM "memory" include breaking channel to cast RnM/EH etc then? I was worried the improved chi gen would only be seen if you channeled for a long time, which is incredibly impractical ofc.

  15. #615
    I feel like if they lowered the amount of stacks required of tigers palm for a free surge then it would put us in a decent spot with chi generation. Maybe 3 or so. It would give fistweaveing the ability to spot heal as well as put forth decent aoe heals via uplift with a few tigers palms. Imo would make the spec more interesting.

  16. #616
    That's not really the problem with fistweaving on the PTR, there is no reason to do it because the damage just isn't worth the deficit in mana and we get no long term benefit from it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 03:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyo View Post
    Spam clicking will only be better if your GCD is lower than the tick interval, which I'm pretty sure it's not.
    Spam clicking is better if the GCD is higher than your interval because Soothing heals for a tick when immediately cast.
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  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    That's not really the problem with fistweaving on the PTR, there is no reason to do it because the damage just isn't worth the deficit in mana and we get no long term benefit from it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-27 at 03:39 PM ----------



    Spam clicking is better if the GCD is higher than your interval because Soothing heals for a tick when immediately cast.
    The immediate ticks of Soothing happen once every GCD. If the GCD is higher, then soothing ticks will happen more frequently if you don't spam click. How is spam clicking better if it results in fewer Soothing ticks per time?

    Edit: Ah, you mean the process of clipping the cast just after it ticks once, now I get it. Yeah, that could be better. I wish they'd break it.

  18. #618
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    It's simple: 1 second GCD, 0.9 second tick interval:

    Spam clicking:
    0.0s Start cast, 1 tick
    0.9s 2 tick
    1.0s Start cast, 3 tick
    1.9s 4 tick
    2.0s Start cast, 5 tick
    etc.

    Not spam clicking:
    0.0s Start casting, 1 tick
    0.9s 2 tick
    1.8s 3 tick
    2.7s 4 tick

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