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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Totle View Post
    30 RP (compared to 30 rage for Execute) is not hard to get by any spec. Especially considering HoW gives 10 and each rune ability gives 10/rune.
    You're missing the heart of the issue.

    What is 30 RP to DW Frost? It is 2.05 FS's and 0.92 HB's.
    What is 30 RP to 2H Frost? It is also 2.05 FS's, but 0.46 OB's and 0.21 HB's.
    What is 30 RP to Unholy? It is 1.07 DC's, 0.43 SS's, and a variable amount of DT uptime depending on DC frequency.

    The damage of these is not remotely comparable.

    Unholy also barely generates enough RP on average to use this SR on CD with a 30 RP cost, whereas Frost has no problem with this availability.
    "I have it all simmed."
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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Asheriah View Post
    You can't exactly use it before the execute phase. The only reason you can plan things, is because it's the only execute-like move that won't deal immediate damage. It's also by far not the most powerful anyway. And if we're going this way, it's also the only execute that can fail after it's been used on a target.

    And about Pillar of Frost and DnD, I don't think it would make them overpowered. We're basically already casting free DnD as blood, and it honestly doesn't change much in terms of dps. (Unless you're in a AoE situation, of course, which isn't a real issue as frost anyway, since you're already using all your frost runes.) The cost of Pillar of Frost though, is just annoying and shouldn't be here anymore, in my eyes.
    I agree completely. DnD I think is fine with rune cost. Soul Reaper should cost runic power so it doesn't conflict with any specs rotation but also should proc rune generating ability's like Frost strike, Death coil, or rune strike would. And pillar of frost rune being removed is just a quality of life change like removing runic power cost on gargoyle.
    Last edited by Zula95; 2013-02-22 at 07:14 AM.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSHA778 View Post
    You're missing the heart of the issue.

    What is 30 RP to DW Frost? It is 2.05 FS's and 0.92 HB's.
    What is 30 RP to 2H Frost? It is also 2.05 FS's, but 0.46 OB's and 0.21 HB's.
    What is 30 RP to Unholy? It is 1.07 DC's, 0.43 SS's, and a variable amount of DT uptime depending on DC frequency.

    The damage of these is not remotely comparable.

    Unholy also barely generates enough RP on average to use this SR on CD with a 30 RP cost, whereas Frost has no problem with this availability.
    I'm going to assume you meant that 30 RP to a fdk was 2.5 FS's and not 2.05. If you actually meant 2.05, you might want to go back to elementary school and brush up on your basic division. Just saying. And 30 RP to a uhdk is more like 0.9375 DC's, because DC costs 32 RP. Someone really needs to brush up on basic math.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-22 at 10:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zula95 View Post
    I agree completely. DnD I think is fine with rune cost. Soul Reaper should cost runic power so it doesn't conflict with any specs rotation but also should proc rune generating ability's like Frost strike, Death coil, or rune strike would. And pillar of frost rune being removed is just a quality of life change like removing runic power cost on gargoyle.
    I'm replying more to the guy you replied to....where are you gettign your info from? Soul reaper does 100% weapon damage, so it does in fact do immediate damage. And from what I can remember, the rune cost of pillars has been removed (although I could be wrong).

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by forwards1ca View Post
    I'm going to assume you meant that 30 RP to a fdk was 2.5 FS's and not 2.05. If you actually meant 2.05, you might want to go back to elementary school and brush up on your basic division. Just saying. And 30 RP to a uhdk is more like 0.9375 DC's, because DC costs 32 RP. Someone really needs to brush up on basic math.
    I'm pretty sure he was implying a cascade:
    30 rp -> .6 HB -> 7.2 RP -> 0.144 HB -> 1.728 Rp ->....
    Which ends up being roughly as much as suggested. (Although it seems to be based on the assumption that an RP SR doesn't proc BT/RE)
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  5. #165
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    I like soul reaper primarily, because people don't seem to understand that you can use it preemptively with your burst.
    Last edited by Bryntrollian; 2013-02-22 at 02:29 PM.
    Synek - best rogue in the world
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't think I know what the acronym "tsg" is. It's not RBG's or Arena, random battlegrounds, or any form of dungeon or raid that I can think of. What does it mean?

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by forwards1ca View Post
    I'm going to assume you meant that 30 RP to a fdk was 2.5 FS's and not 2.05. If you actually meant 2.05, you might want to go back to elementary school and brush up on your basic division. Just saying. And 30 RP to a uhdk is more like 0.9375 DC's, because DC costs 32 RP. Someone really needs to brush up on basic math.
    I congratulate you on recognizing that this problem involves division. Let's see if you can access the rest of that brain to go beyond the tooltip to what actually happens in game. I won't elaborate on this any further, because Nillo has already covered it. It's up to you to understand that your assumptions going into the situation were wrong, which led you to the conclusion that I am incapable of doing simple math.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    (Although it seems to be based on the assumption that an RP SR doesn't proc BT/RE)
    Yes, I am assuming that.

    However, if you assume that it doesn't, then you will still see the disparity very clearly.

    DW Frost: 1.5 FS's.
    2H Frost: Also 1.5 FS's.
    Unholy: 0.94 DC's and a variable amount of DT uptime depending on DC frequency (assuming it doesn't add SI).

    The damage of these is also not remotely comparable.

    If you assume that Frost-SR still will not benefit from mastery, it's very clear that the gain in using DW Frost is severely dampened by the loss of FS (a very large source of damage), and that both Frost specs have the relative value of SR tied to weapon damage. Therefore, as they gear up, the gain in using SR will decrease for both. Unholy is immune to this problem.
    "I have it all simmed."
    Euliat

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    I'm pretty sure he was implying a cascade:
    30 rp -> .6 HB -> 7.2 RP -> 0.144 HB -> 1.728 Rp ->....
    Which ends up being roughly as much as suggested. (Although it seems to be based on the assumption that an RP SR doesn't proc BT/RE)
    Could you explain this cascade thing you are talking about please. I have to admit I have no idea what you are trying to say with this progression of numbers.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by forwards1ca View Post
    Could you explain this cascade thing you are talking about please. I have to admit I have no idea what you are trying to say with this progression of numbers.
    Well 30 rp = 1.5 frost strikes - with this you get 3 blood charges which gives you .6 howling blast giving you 7.2 rp............
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