If it wasn't for the Orcs, would the other races get along ok?

[rogueMatthias]

So Tauren seem to get along pretty well with everyone tbh, and have a lot in common with the NE, their only real reason to be in the Horde seems to be that they're honour bound to Thrall, and through that the horde.

Same goes for Darkspear. Vol'jin seems to want peace, and the BE being in the horde shows that Elves and Trolls can put thousands of years of warring behind them.

Goblins seem to just be in the horde because Thrall was the first person they came across, when their slavers ship they were being carried in was sunk (though a lot of that story is a bit daft so we'll ignore it anyway).

BE have shown that they're not entirely against being with the Alliance (until Jaina interfeered) and probably wouldn't mind being neutral at least.

I guess it's just undead that would be screwed.

Seems to me that the majority of the Horde would probably get along fine with most of the Alliance if the Orcs weren't there drumming up war. Most of the races seem to only even be with the Orcs because they were personal friends of Thrall and he happened to be there at the right time to help them. Just saying is all, that maybe Azeroth would all be a much better place if they went back to Outland now their invasion plan didn't work out (if it's stopped crumbling anyway).

[Trassk]

Sorry but what is this? It seems like theres this sudden craze for posting topics on why people think orcs are evil.

Humans are more the fault why orcs are fighting back as they do, would just back off and stop being overzealous tools, the orcs wouldn't of had idiots like Garrosh come ahead and do what he did.

[Deleted]

Taurens used to go from not understanding the dwarves, to not liking them, to hating them all on their own accord so that's not true.

Blood Elves for the most part do not like the humans and have great contempt for the high elves and night elves, especially since the return of the highborne.

The Forsaken hate every member of the alliance and everyone hates them.

Goblins and Gnomes is well documented.

Draneai and Blood Elves really do not get along.

[Skytotem]

Sorry but what is this? It seems like theres this sudden craze for posting topics on why people think orcs are evil.

Humans are more the fault why orcs are fighting back as they do, would just back off and stop being overzealous tools, the orcs wouldn't of had idiots like Garrosh come ahead and do what he did.

How are the humans being 'overzealous tools'?

Didn't Varian go to War because Garrosh was invading the nelfs?

---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 11:44 AM ----------

So Tauren seem to get along pretty well with everyone tbh, and have a lot in common with the NE, their only real reason to be in the Horde seems to be that they're honour bound to Thrall, and through that the horde.

Same goes for Darkspear. Vol'jin seems to want peace, and the BE being in the horde shows that Elves and Trolls can put thousands of years of warring behind them.

Goblins seem to just be in the horde because Thrall was the first person they came across, when their slavers ship they were being carried in was sunk (though a lot of that story is a bit daft so we'll ignore it anyway).

BE have shown that they're not entirely against being with the Alliance (until Jaina interfeered) and probably wouldn't mind being neutral at least.

I guess it's just undead that would be screwed.

Seems to me that the majority of the Horde would probably get along fine with most of the Alliance if the Orcs weren't there drumming up war. Most of the races seem to only even be with the Orcs because they were personal friends of Thrall and he happened to be there at the right time to help them. Just saying is all, that maybe Azeroth would all be a much better place if they went back to Outland now their invasion plan didn't work out (if it's stopped crumbling anyway).

Hard to say really.

Tauren get along with nelves but don't like the dwarves digging up their land.

Darkspear have legitimate reasons to dislike the Alliance but strangely seem uninterested in fighting them, possibly because they're still a relatively small tribe.

Goblins would probably be neutral yeah.

Bloodelves would probably be neutral or naga-aligned along with the Forsaken, which... honestly, they ought to be isolationist if they just want


ironically the story would make more sense if the Orc's random aggression were removed and they settled Durotar rather peacefully. But the writers want war so they have to keep making the orcs do weird things to keep it going :\

[rogueMatthias]

How are the humans being 'overzealous tools'?

Daelin Proudmoore. I'd swear half the Ali hate in lore is all based around the ONE guy being a tool.

[Wyrt]

No. Dwarves, humans, and forsaken also cause problems with other races. It's not solely on the orcs. You'd have to remove them as well to get peace.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

They'd get along a lot better. But I doubt we'd see a one-world faction if the Orcs were out of the picture.

[Skytotem]

Daelin Proudmoore. I'd swear half the Ali hate in lore is all based around the ONE guy being a tool.

Let's be honest though, he NEVER gets brought up, it's like Garithos.

Both are VERY legit reasons to dislike the Alliance but neither is referenced ingame past durotar. They get passing mentions in short stories and books but otherwise it's like they don't exist and it's -weird-.

Also, to be fair to the Alliance, both of those guys operated pretty much on their own, which, again, shouldn't mean much to the Orcs or belfs but it's annoying to me how squeaky clean the Alliance stays since Everyone in it that goes 'evil' or does anything 'wrong' breaks off before they do it.

And again, both of those things happened in the RTS, since the MMO launched the most aggressive thing the Alliance did up till wotlk was dig up Tauren villages, which is -bad- yeah but it doesn't exactly lay the foundation for the level's of animosity we see.

[SirMeo]

All races will get along ok when Old Gods rise and make everyone their mindslaves.

Non silly answer:
No. Races don't get along okay even within themselves, what's with all humans fighting humans and all those rogue factions within factions so why would they suddenly be buddy buddy with each other if only orcs were taken from the equation?

[Deleted]

I dont see why blood elves are not with the alliance now, Velen fixed them, he solved their problems and gave them the sunwell. The taurens are clearly quite a peaceful race aswell.

[BicycleMafioso]

I don't know. I've mostly always thought of the Alliance as the most evil ones.
Humans and (n)elves are incredibly arrogant and racist. Not to mention that Tyrande and Malfurion are evil incarnate, as well as Varian is single-minded and a poor leader.
Dwarves' curiosity will be their death, always digging up old Gods and warring inbetween (Ironforge dwarves are okay~ish).
Gnomes, wow. Put a leash on them. Without the Alliance, they'd have nuked themselves to pieces.
Modern Draenei are self-absorbed and wouldn't notice the world swallowing them up (not really evil though)
Can't much say about newer races than that.

Blood elves would never, ever align with humans again; Kael'Thas gone or not.

[Firecrest]

Sorry but what is this? It seems like theres this sudden craze for posting topics on why people think orcs are evil.

Humans are more the fault why orcs are fighting back as they do, would just back off and stop being overzealous tools, the orcs wouldn't of had idiots like Garrosh come ahead and do what he did.

Nothing in the OP said that Orcs are evil. He just pointed out that, without the Orcs, most of Azeroth would get along reasonably well with each other. Address the actual point he made instead of arguing against something that he never said.

Lastly, you can NEVER say "Humans are more at fault" for anything. The antagonists of the war, the group who started it all is very very clear. If the Orcish Horde had never invaded Azeroth, none of the atrocities committed by both sides would ever have happened.

Both sides have done some really abhorrent things. However, if you trace the blame game all the way back, the initial catalyst is easy to find.

[Skytotem]

I don't know. I've mostly always thought of the Alliance as the most evil ones.
Humans and (n)elves are incredibly arrogant and racist. Not to mention that Tyrande and Malfurion are evil incarnate, as well as Varian is single-minded and a poor leader.
Dwarves' curiosity will be their death, always digging up old Gods and warring inbetween (Ironforge dwarves are okay~ish).
Gnomes, wow. Put a leash on them. Without the Alliance, they'd have nuked themselves to pieces.
Modern Draenei are self-absorbed and wouldn't notice the world swallowing them up (not really evil though)
Can't much say about newer races than that.

Blood elves would never, ever align with humans again; Kael'Thas gone or not.

1. Humans and nelves are racist based on what?

2. Actually they've got a good track record. Their research stopped reorigination twice and only -one- of their digs has anything evil under it that was set loose by them. (The Southern Barrens one if I recall.) Am I forgetting digs that had evil stuff pop out?

I mean the Dark Irons had rag but they didn't really have any say in Ironforge's stuff up until very recently, and the dark irons with Moira are the non-Twilight ones so they're not likely to try anything like that again.

3. There is zero basis for this. The gnomes aren't likely to mess with radiation again.

[Deleted]

If the orcs never existed:

In War of the Ancients alternative timeline, when an orc jumped through the portal and fought the Legion to slow them down, orcs never existed so no orc would have jumped, leading to a lot of demons coming. Furthermore, Sargeras would not have been scrached, so Aegwynn could not have focused on that wound when she fought him, so she might have lost. Which means Azeroth would have been now Legion controlled.

But let's ignore this part of the lore and focus on in-games lore.
If orcs never existed, draenei would have settled on a planet with no orcs. Most likely the Legion would have used the arrakoa and the ogres against them. However, because of so few forces there, the portal to Azeroth would not have been opened in WC1, since the Legion isn't stupid, they'd have first gotten more troops on Outland.

So, the first change here, the human kingdoms would have done their stupid stuff amongst themselves, and most likely until WC2 the Legion would have had enough troops and opened the portal. And gone through. And attacked the humans. A major difference is that I don't think Alterac would have allied with demons, they were stupid, but not that stupid. Yet, Gul'dan wouldn't exist either to leave with a major part of the invading army, so it's kind of a balance here, the Legion would most likely have still been pushed back. Then the humans would have still gone to Outland and we can assume everything went the same there.
However... Ner'zhul was an orc. So without him, the undead would be lead by the dreadlords. Why is this important? Simply, because Arthas would now be a puppet of them. Remember what happened before he killed Mal'ganis? The Lich King ordered him to do so through the blade. But what if the Lich King would have ordered him to stand his ground? Most likely it wouldn't have worked, yet with the influence of the dreadlord too, it might either have worked or worked enough for Mal'ganis to kill him.

So now from start, the undead are not separate from the Legion anymore.
So humans get sent to Kalimdor, and meet up with the night elves. Difference now however is that humans might try diplomacy even if they get attacked by night elves. So the Alliance there is made faster, and working together, the two forces get to Hyjal first... but... the Darkspear trolls would be dead, killed by the naga witch. The tauren would be dead or dying, killed by the centaurs in their moving effort. So neither could offer help, this would be just humans, dwarves, high elves, night elves, dryads, ancients, dark trolls and some furbolgs and beasts against the Legion.
Without the orcs, the Legion could not be delayed enough. Without delaying the Legion enough, Archimode would get to Nordrassil before Malfurion had called enough wisps. So Archimode would destroy Nordrassil and the Legion would win.

But let's assume that didn't happen, the Alliance and the night elves win. They'd win with lots more losses. Though the major players might survive, we could most likely talk about half the forces they had remained in the true timeline. So what next? Well, the Lich King! But wait, the Lich King does not exist, only dreadlords do. And most likely they're not in Northrend. Why is this important? Because if they aren't in Northrend, Illidan's plan would be worthless, would it not? Plus, let's not forget Illidan was hired by Kil'jaden because the Lich King had fallen away from the Legion... but now the undead are under Legion control. So, without a promise for power, Illidan would have no purpose in life, so he'd go emo(he has no reason to get Vashj on his side because he doesn't have a goal for power). And Maiev would catch him, as he's alone. And this before he even leaves Kalimdor. So the blood elves would be wiped out, as Maiev and Tyrande would no longer be there to help them. And as such the humans would be wiped out too. The undead would move towards Ironforge, and Ironforge would be under siege.

We now get to the orc campaign in the Frozen Throne. No orcs. So Daelin Proudmoore would get there and actually work together with Jaina and the new allies, the night elves. He had no reason to do otherwise, he hated orcs, not anyone else.

And 4 years later we probably wouldn't have a Teldrassil, as there aren't so many night elves to spread their forces so thin, so they'd most likely sit around Moonglade area. Jaina and Daelin's forces would probably sit around a bit more north, in Azshara to be closer to their allies without intruding in their lands, and with less night elves Azshara is deserted fully by night elves. South of Ashenvale it's centaur land all the way to Gadzetan.
On the other continent, it's undead and demons all over. Since they had access to the Sunwell faster, Kil'jaden would be there and have wiped Ironforge even if the demons and undead would not have breached it. In Outland, again, demons all over.

The following playable races are still alive: night elves (around half of what was available at start of WoW), humans (around 1/100 of what was available at WoW launch all around Theramore, this town most likely being in Azshara, rest were the ones around Stormwind and other kingdoms and now undead or fully dead), dwarves (1/100 of what was available at WoW launch, sitting in Theramore and most likely in the Azshara hills, remember most dwarves were in Ironforge and Dun Morogh), gnomes (1/10 of what we had at WoW launch, the ones who came with Jaina, it's 1/10 since a lot of gnomes in original timeline dies in Gnomeregan, so not related to Legion or orcs), high elves (1/100 of original high elf population, the ones that came with Jaina), goblins (around 1/2 of current population, remember goblins knew of Kalimdor, but Booty Bay and all other goblin areas in Eastern Kingdoms are gone, they are in Northern Barrens and Tanaris probably).

Which non-evil races would profit? centaurs, no wiping on them, so they'd have been 10 times the population now and those boar-creatures, forgat their names now, also no genocide on them.

What races would be gone? Well besides orcs, also tauren, trolls(except the sand trolls), blood elves, forsaken, draenei, worgen would be gone for good.
Only Kalimdor would be "safe" yet here we'd be like on current Outland, under siege from the Legion everywhere. The centaurs and the boar-people would most likely have joined us(remember they joined the lich to fight the orcs who were in their lands), yet even like this we wouldn't be strong enough. There would be no Burning Crusade, as it would be right on Kalimdor, the Wrath of the Lich King would be with dreadlords and masses of undead not held back by anyone... if we're lucky we might be able to blow up Nordrassil before the Legion get to it, as we couldn't stop them. This would mean the entire of Northern Kalimdor would be destroyed. So, if Shandris would have gone to make Feathermoon Stronghold a bit south... only she, 1/10 of night elves, 1/10 of goblins and that's it would be left. And the Legion forces would be fighting the silithids and the Old God forces.

So today you'd play either a night elf or a goblin, and only the western part of Feralas and the northern part of Tanaris would be under our forces. The sand trolls might be smart enough to ally with the goblins. And we'd all be fighting a guerilla war.

[Stir]

So Tauren seem to get along pretty well with everyone tbh, and have a lot in common with the NE, their only real reason to be in the Horde seems to be that they're honour bound to Thrall, and through that the horde.

Tauren have very little in common with Night Elves. Tauren are peaceful, loving, accepting people on the whole. Night Elves are xenophobic, arrogant and blood-thirsty people on the whole. Exceptions can be found in both groups; the Night Elf druids are really great, and the Grimtotems are hideously evil.
But without the Orcs, the Tauren would have been wiped out by the Centaur, and nobody would have lifted a finger. So no; they wouldn't be okay.

Same goes for Darkspear. Vol'jin seems to want peace, and the BE being in the horde shows that Elves and Trolls can put thousands of years of warring behind them.

The Darkspear would have cannibalized the hell out of themselves, and would have been murdered by the Humans before they even got to that point... If it wasn't for the Orcs to interefere (on both accounts). There would have been no Darkspear without the Orcs.

Goblins seem to just be in the horde because Thrall was the first person they came across, when their slavers ship they were being carried in was sunk (though a lot of that story is a bit daft so we'll ignore it anyway).

The Alliance was shooting them to bits in the cross-fire. The Horde saved them. Keep in mind that those were already the last remaining members of the Bilgewater cartel; without the Orcs interfering and saving them (despite being involved in a battle at the time), the Bilgewater goblins would be dead. So... No.

BE have shown that they're not entirely against being with the Alliance (until Jaina interfeered) and probably wouldn't mind being neutral at least.

A bit different, but without the Forsaken, the Sin'Dorei of Silvermoon would have fallen to the Scourge. And without the Orcs, the Forsaken would have fallen to the Scarlet Crusaders.

I guess it's just undead that would be screwed.

And everyone else.

Seems to me that the majority of the Horde would probably get along fine with most of the Alliance if the Orcs weren't there drumming up war. Most of the races seem to only even be with the Orcs because they were personal friends of Thrall and he happened to be there at the right time to help them. Just saying is all, that maybe Azeroth would all be a much better place if they went back to Outland now their invasion plan didn't work out (if it's stopped crumbling anyway).

Please understand that most orcs aren't 'drumming up war.' The Warsong Clan definitely does that, and the Frostwolves are involved in some as well (mostly because they overlapped refuge with dwarven areas), but most of the Horde's orcs aren't involved in any warring activity at all.

[Skytotem]

so Aegwynn could not have focused on that wound when she fought him,

Source? I thought this was just a theory.

[DeLos]

If Orcs vanished after say the third war....Not dealing with before as it adds all kinds of other 'what-ifs'....

Would the world be all sunshine and peace? No. There would still be occasional faction strife. There would be small battles in various places. Such as the Blood elves fighting the Amani. The Forsaken would probably have been wiped out. Without the Horde as support I am sure most of the factions would have turned on them and they would not have had the means to stop it.

Would there be less war? Most certainly. The entire planet is pretty much currently involved in war. That would not be the case. Small battles with small factions would come up, temporary alliances may be made to deal with them.

So think small scattered conflicts instead of a major world war.

Of the main factions, I would say:
Tauren = Neutral, peaceful with everyone
Trolls (Darkspear) = Maybe not true peace, but close. A 'you leave me alone, I leave you alone' attitude.
Goblins = Sell to whoever has money, neutral.
Blood Elves = Neutral, friendly-ish with most races
Forsaken = Extinct
Nightelves = Peace with everyone, tenuous with blood elves.
Worgan/Gilneas = Remaining mostly isolationist. Some contact with Night elves because of worgan curse. Not open, but not hostile to anyone.
Draenei = Neutral
Humans = Peace with most, still strong Allies with Ironforge and Gnomergan
Dwarf = Allies with Human and Gnomes, peace with everyone else.
Gnomes = Allies with Humans and Dwarves, peace with everyone else.

[Viscoe]

The tauren would be exterminated if not for the orcs.

The Darkspear would be, as well, though I don't know their lore as well as I know tauren lore, so that may not be as exact.

But, Thrall and his posse saved Cairne and his tribe from the centaur, against whom the tauren were losing a war. If not for the orcs, it is entirely likely that Cairne would have died, the entire tauren population would not have united, and they'd be just as much an enemy to everyone as quillboar or gnolls when people started settling in land they used to travel through. That is, if they even had any left - remember they were nearly extinct.

[Imnick]

Without the Orcs the Tauren and Darkspear would be dead and then soon so would everyone else, including the Alliance races (but not Draenei), because of demons.

[Darmalus]

Remember, most world-ending bad guys aren't directly connected to any of the player races. Without the common enemy of the Horde to unite them, it's very likely the Alliance would simply have come apart. No unified front, and the Sithilid, Burning Legion, Lich King, and Deathwing just stomp all over everyone.

A few years of peace, then everyone dies! The world gets re-originated, and there isn't even an archeological record of anyone's existence!