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  1. #41
    Since BC onwards, we've generally gotten help.

    Maiev helped us kill Illidan.

    We didn't really beat Kil'jaeden so much as stall him until Kalec could snap Anveena out of her trance and she could turn the power of the sunwell against him.

    Malygos would have killed us if we hadn't gotten help from the red flight in the last phase.

    Yogg Saron, we had the help of the four Keepers.

    Lich King actually DID kill us, it was only Tirion pulling a dues ex machina with his final light prayer and shattering Frostmourne that did him in, with the thousands of spirits within leaving him helpless for us to finish off.

    We had help with Sinestra if I'm not mistaken, I think Cael did something there anyway.

    Ragnaros 2.0, you only kill him in the heroic mode where Malfurion and Friends come in to help you.

    Deathwing? All we did was tear off his armor plates and buy time for Thrall to finish him off with the Dragon Soul.

    Even the Sha of Fear we're only able to beat because of Lei shi creating that shield from his fear breath.

    As for us 'stabbing at their feet' that's just a matter of gameplay/story segregation.

  2. #42
    These threads pop up every so often. Some people just don't understand that your character is supposed to be very powerful, not just a common soldier.

  3. #43
    They're not necessarily weak, the heroes are just so powerful. Plus, the way in which many things happen in WoW is due to game mechanics. For instance, what sense does an 'aggro range' really make? The entire encampment should be kicking your ass, but instead you can murder them one by one in the most violent and destructive ways imaginable, and the rest don't see or hear anything.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Prime example could be deathwing. DW was that massive dragon that caused whole azeroth to crumble and ripped apart landscape with his breath... Then got beaten by couple random guys with swords and stuff who usually are able to hit only dragons feet.
    You act like the Aspects and Thrall had nothing to do with his defeat at all...

  5. #45
    Titan Kangodo's Avatar
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    Okay, so to summarize this thread so far:

    1. Game-mechanics, the bosses have to be killable.

    2. We are not just soldiers, we are heroes!

    3. Many bosses are killed with the help of powerful allies.

  6. #46
    It wasn't the players who killed Deathwing. They just merely helped and Dragon aspects and thrall did all the difficult part

  7. #47
    Lore=//=In game boss mechanics. I'm sure no boss in his right mind would ever let people heal in the back.

  8. #48
    It is for gameplay reasons.

    Imagine this... If it were a story being told in a book, it wouldn't be a raid of 25 people that defeated these bosses. It would be AN ARMY!

    A massive army of warriors, mages, druids, priests, and the like. And still backed by the armies of the NPCs. And the heroes themselves, like Thrall, Tirion, the Aspects.

    Now, how would you make a fight of five thousand people against Ragnaros? Impossible, agree?

    The same thing with the world. Blizzard once stated that if Orgrimmar were in real size, it would be the size of the entire world map.

    So they scale everything down to fit the gameplay.

  9. #49
    because: Magic.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    Blizzard did a raid in a massive, open area filled with NPCs battling each other, with the players at the center of the fight. People didn't like that one either. (Hint: It was Dragon Soul.)

    Besides, we're meant to be the focus of the fights. We're the heroes. Having NPC assistance is okay, but you're talking about having them do all the heavy lifting (story-wise, if not in fight mechanics). And really, Blizzard does NPC assistance rather often. Maeiv and Akama in Black Temple, the Red Dragonflight in Eye of Eternity, Tirion in ICC, the Titanic Watchers in Ulduar, Kalecgos in Sunwell, the Aspects in Dragon Soul, the Klaxxi in Heart of Fear (even if they were all dead by the time we arrived)...
    Do you honestly believe that the setting with NPCs fighting each other was a big reason why people hated DS? From what I can tell people hated the fights, the fact a zones were reused, and 2 boss fights basically happened in the same room, etc. Trust me, I found the armies attack Wrymrest Temple pretty cool and epic.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Cle View Post
    Well yeah. But still same thing applies to wide variety of bosses, specially all dragons. For an example, why ragnaros just couldnt slam his hammer into all of us and be done with it?
    because you have no imagination. THis isn't a real time action game. Heroic backflips and dodges and leaping along the back of a dragon into his mouth can only be represented by random number generators telling you if you hit or missed. Blizzard managed to spice this up a lot with spells and abilities that sometimes make you feel as if you're playing an action combat scenario, but it's all you standing in place for the most part and only moving when you hear the bell ring etc.

    Our actual combat is an equivocation of the actual event. RPGs were originally designed to play out in your mind's eye. When those systems were merged with a world of video media/graphics, it makes for an interesting way to play a game.

    But you presenting what we're doing in such a painfully literal way is just wrong, and the negative connotations are entirely of your own inference.

    We are doing much more than standing around hitting rotations in the lore, you're not clever for construing it into the most boring and literal approximation you can muster. We are slamming dragons in the face with magically charged shields which glow with the light of the sun, while god like beings are pouring their strength into our very souls. We play super heroes who are essentially friends with gods and demigods and we're taking part in an avatar like cosmic battle for the balance of the universe.
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  12. #52
    Fluffy Kitten Rivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theendgamelv3 View Post
    Do you honestly believe that the setting with NPCs fighting each other was a big reason why people hated DS? From what I can tell people hated the fights, the fact a zones were reused, and 2 boss fights basically happened in the same room, etc. Trust me, I found the armies attack Wrymrest Temple pretty cool and epic.
    No. I know why people didn't like it. I was just saying that having lots of NPC involvement doesn't make a raid good.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivin View Post
    No. I know why people didn't like it. I was just saying that having lots of NPC involvement doesn't make a raid good.
    True, but the added touch can make a good raid into a better one IMO.

  14. #54
    More like why are bosses always so dumb? Go for the healers! Geeze, it's like being in random BGs.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  15. #55
    You're on his back and he hardly notices us, we're just a minor distraction, then we create a vulnerable point on his back and he gets blasted into pieces by the dragon soul.

    Even the he still isn't done despite falling into the fiery pit of the maelstrom he tries clawing his way out and attempts to cast cataclysm which would destroy the entire world, but we interrupt it by destroying the claws.

    All in all I would say he was pretty powerful but we got lucky to sneak in under his guard and with the help of the dragon aspects managed to kill him.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 06:42 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    (interesting note, Thrall shot him the second time while we were on Deathwing's back. Nice.).

    Not quite, we parachuted off.

  16. #56
    AI should have more encounters with that would be more "unexpected" is great to have to improvise, adrenaline would not wait

  17. #57
    Dreadlord Zenny's Avatar
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    People also seem to forget that our characters are blatantly superhuman at this point. We are hardly standard dudes with swords.

  18. #58
    Cause everybody needs to win and have a good time.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenny View Post
    People also seem to forget that our characters are blatantly superhuman at this point. We are hardly standard dudes with swords.
    That too. We're heroes and champions, not random soldiers. I mean, our paladins are no Tirion Fordring, our mages no Jaina, our shamans no Thrall, but we're still heroes. We're not Superman or Batman, but we're still superheroes.

  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Because the antagonist can never win, else the game is over.
    They made Deathwing far too powerful and had to resort to the Pewpew Soul to weaken him. This gets old.
    At least Garrosh is a mortal, even if he gets possessed with all the possible stuff.

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