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  1. #321
    Hey guys, I can't pick what trinkets i need to use, im a fire mage. ATM i use Wushoolay reforge crit (normal) and LotC reforge crit (normal). i also got Relic 2/2 in bank. (i can buy the shadopan VP trink if its better then some i got)

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by icerus View Post
    Hey guys, I can't pick what trinkets i need to use, im a fire mage. ATM i use Wushoolay reforge crit (normal) and LotC reforge crit (normal). i also got Relic 2/2 in bank. (i can buy the shadopan VP trink if its better then some i got)
    Get the shadopan trinket, it beats relic and normal LotC for sure.

  3. #323
    Hey guys, which one would be better for a frostmage with NT?

    Breath of the hydra (502 / LFR) or Light of the Cosmos (502 / Heroic)?

  4. #324
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypnosius View Post
    Shame it drops off Lei Shen
    Fortunately(?) the proc is identical between Normal, Heroic and LFR
    The proc is the same, but the RPPM increases with item level:
    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen (WoWHead)

    The proc frequency changes based on the ilvl of the trinket:
    - Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.525 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells.
    No ICD.
    Proc rate multiplied by 0.00 for non-caster specs.
    Proc rate multiplied by 0.65 for Balance Druids.
    Proc rate multiplied by 0.25 against player controlled units.
    Proc rate multiplied by 1/(1.15^((528-ItemLevel)/15) for the various Item Level versions of the trinket.

    541 ilevel = 112.88% proc multiplier
    535 ilevel = 106.74% proc multiplier
    528 ilevel = 100.00% proc multiplier
    522 ilevel = 94.56% proc multiplier
    502 ilevel = 78.49% proc multiplier
    463 ilevel = 54.57% proc multiplier

    This counts for both Unerring Vision and Rune of Re-Origination.
    The trinket might be powerful for some scenarios, but a proc at the right time's very rare.
    That's why I hate the new RPPM trinkets, because you cannot align them with other CDs due to its unpredictability which is much easier with e.g. LOTC. (Well, Cha-Ye might be ok for me with it's scaling RPPM by crit rating and higher standard RPPM although the 10s duration is low *mimimi* :-) )
    Last edited by Smaikiii; 2013-04-04 at 01:34 PM.

  5. #325
    hmm... hard choice... LOTC has like 40ish uptime where hydra as only 20ish uptime... I personally would stick to heroic LOTC

  6. #326
    High Overlord Adeltor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aqacia View Post
    How good is Cha-ye LFR version for FIRE? According to askmrrobot, its better then both my Light of the Cosmos HEROIC 2/2 upgraded and Volatile talisman of the Shado pan assault. Is this correct?
    I'd say it is tbh. At least better than the shado pan one. Cuz you'll get a great Int proc and a fair amount of Crit instead of steady Int and shitty Haste proc. Imo go for LoTC + Cha'Ye.


    Requesting that thread for sticky btw, so many trinkets, so many questions...
    .
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    I want to feel the zomg in my dpspants when I throw pyros at someones face. How do you keep that feeling of 'zomg' in your pants while still nerfing throughput?

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  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    Get the shadopan trinket, it beats relic and normal LotC for sure.
    But wich do i switch ? i keep LotC and take shadopan insted of wushoolay?

  8. #328
    The Patient royals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotstreaklol View Post
    hmm... hard choice... LOTC has like 40ish uptime where hydra as only 20ish uptime... I personally would stick to heroic LOTC
    40% of the proc from LOTC (2/2 HC) is approc 1.2k Int is it not? 20% of BoH is about the same with more passive stats. My personal experience with BoH is ~30% uptime. Will have to test this full week before being able to have some sort of conclusive evidence. (A party of one is far too small of a sample size to be conclusive, but much better than 3 bosses of logs in lfr
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  9. #329
    Can someone PLEASE show a breakdown of up-time on all of the 5.2 trinkets??? I think it will help us fellow mages greatly... Things I have noticed

    Cha-ye and Breath BiS for single target

    Cha-ye and Wushoolay's BiS for multi-dotting fights

    Agree??

  10. #330
    The Patient royals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotstreaklol View Post
    Can someone PLEASE show a breakdown of up-time on all of the 5.2 trinkets??? I think it will help us fellow mages greatly... Things I have noticed

    Cha-ye and Breath BiS for single target

    Cha-ye and Wushoolay's BiS for multi-dotting fights

    Agree??
    You can't really make a "Breakdown" of uptime on these trinkets in 5.2 as they are all PPM and will proc differently each fight since it is based a lot on RNG... If we were somehow able to lump together everyones parses and take an average of trinket uptime we could get a nice idea of average uptime. Unfortunately I do not know how to do that from world of logs.
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  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by royals View Post
    You can't really make a "Breakdown" of uptime on these trinkets in 5.2 as they are all PPM and will proc differently each fight since it is based a lot on RNG... If we were somehow able to lump together everyones parses and take an average of trinket uptime we could get a nice idea of average uptime. Unfortunately I do not know how to do that from world of logs.
    You could select all kills (or maybe + tries/wipes) and a player and watch his/her trinket uptime

    Details for Player X --> All kills ---> Player X ---> Buffs gained ---> Find your trinket buff, but this is just a small sample size.

    Or you do sims with simcraft, but this would more or less lead to an average uptime which you can also calculte by yourself
    ( Buff Duration * RPPM * Haste ) / 60

  12. #332
    The Patient royals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smaikiii View Post
    You could select all kills (or maybe + tries/wipes) and a player and watch his/her trinket uptime

    Details for Player X --> All kills ---> Player X ---> Buffs gained ---> Find your trinket buff, but this is just a small sample size.

    Or you do sims with simcraft, but this would more or less lead to an average uptime which you can also calculte by yourself
    ( Buff Duration * RPPM * Haste ) / 60
    Agreed on that statement. I suppose that my point was that because of RPPM you can't say "Uptime is this" because it varies by class, spec, overall haste, etc. since they tweak PPM on things based on your spec.

    As an aside, let me post my uptime on the Tforged BoH I recieved off of Megera last week for comparison to anyone who would like to see:

    Ji'Kun: 25.6%
    Durumu: 22.4%
    Primo: 39.9%

    Note my armory has me at 10.14% base haste.
    Probably worth noting on Primo you have buffs and many adds to dot which will skew the proc rate up.
    Last edited by royals; 2013-04-05 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Additions
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  13. #333
    For fire: 2/2 Heroic Elegon Trinket, OR Shado-Pan assault? First trinket is Cha-ye's. I imagine 2/2 Elegon>Shado Pan

  14. #334
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tezra View Post
    For fire: 2/2 Heroic Elegon Trinket, OR Shado-Pan assault? First trinket is Cha-ye's. I imagine 2/2 Elegon>Shado Pan
    Most definitely LOTC. The SPA trinket is pretty shit for Fire.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Atm, I have 502 H LotC (Non upgraded), and SPA trinket. I'm waiting on a Cha-Ye or BoH to drop for me, at which point, whichever I get will replace SPA.

    Once I get the other trinket, I'll be doing some tests, but here's how I personally feel the trinkets should go for pre-heroics:

    BoH > H LotC 2/2 >= N TF Cha-Ye > H LotC 0/2 >= N Cha-Ye > N Wushoolay > SPA > Unerring

    - Unerring is just way too RNG to get any real benefit out of it.
    - SPA is a Haste procc; something that doesn't work too well for Fire, especially with its horrible 10s duration.
    - Wushoolay, like Unerring, it too RNG based on when your cooldowns are ready and if you're good to go with a HU/HS for Alter Time/PoM. It's better than SPA though because it has an Int procc.
    - Cha-Ye is good, but unless it's Thunderforged, I personally don't feel it's better than LotC just because LotC isn't RPPM, has an AMAZING uptime and ICD, and has steady proccs because of NT. Cha-Ye is based on Crits, so the only guaranteed proccer is IB. You know when you don't get a string of crits? Yeah, Cha-Ye won't procc then either, but that could be a good thing because you know you'll have a better chance to procc Cha-Ye when you get those 3 crits for your HU/HS before an AT.
    - H LotC is just so amazing.
    - BoH I feel is the best because of the 20s duration and super-high Int procc compared to LotC. The only downside is the Uptime/RNG of the trinket, but RNG is Fire's main game.

    Using these notes, I'll add the heroic info (skipping upgrades/TF because too much annoyance):

    H BoH > H Cha-Ye > H LotC >= H Wushoolay > H Unerring > SPA

    While I'm not using math to back up my information (so feel free to ignore me if you want to math out averages and whatnot), I do use logic. RNG is generally a bad thing to add to an RNG-heavy specc. Wushoo and Unerring are way too RNG to get any really good benefit out of them unless your stars align for you. SPA is just terrible, but its a good trinket if you are unlucky with the drops (as I am when it comes to trinkets >_>). H LotC is just so incredible that I recommend any and all Fire Mages to try and pug/OpenRaid heroic MSV to get it.

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  15. #335
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Got my Cha'ye yesterday it was TF and tried it out on Lei'shen. The umptime for frost with this trinket is just insane. It procced about 3 times on the first of the 4 platforms and at leat 2 times on each other platform.

    I love this thing!

    Lei'shen 10:56min fight:

    27 Cha'ye Procs 528
    13 LotC procs 510

    Very Nice Trinket.

  16. #336
    Would love a few opinions on which to use:

    Playing frost, first off.

    1. LOTC H 510
    2. SPA 522
    3. Cha'Ye 522.

    I read that it would seem 1+2 are the best to use.
    I havn't had time to test the uptime on Cha'Ye tho, but I dont like the loss of 1400+ int and in general I'm fond of the static int on SPA and the haste which mostly procs where it's beneficial (cept during berserk/bl etc).
    Quite certain I shoudn't replace LOTC, it's just pwn atm

    quick second opinions plz, have to trade the Cha'Ye to our Sp if I shouldn't use it over SPA
    Last edited by Hasufer; 2013-04-11 at 10:15 PM.

  17. #337
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mûe View Post
    Got my Cha'ye yesterday it was TF and tried it out on Lei'shen. The umptime for frost with this trinket is just insane. It procced about 3 times on the first of the 4 platforms and at leat 2 times on each other platform.

    I love this thing!

    Lei'shen 10:56min fight:

    27 Cha'ye Procs 528
    13 LotC procs 510

    Very Nice Trinket.
    Does Cha'ye use shatter-buffed crit when determining RPPM chance when appropriate?

  18. #338
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX View Post
    Does Cha'ye use shatter-buffed crit when determining RPPM chance when appropriate?
    Fairly sure it does. RPPM's haste calculation adjusts for buffs, I don't see why Cha-Ye's wouldn't take shatter calculations. I'll see if I can get a confirmation though.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2013-04-11 at 11:07 PM.

  19. #339
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Most definitely LOTC. The SPA trinket is pretty shit for Fire.
    Aside from the H LOTC being better than the SPA one, how about an unupped normal LOTC?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
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  20. #340
    I currently have 522 Shado-Pan trinket, 528 Breath of the Hydra, 502 Cha-ye's, 496 Relic of Yulon.

    What would you expect would compliment the BotH the best? Does 502 Cha-Ye's win out over 522 Shado-Pan?

    I'll sim myself later.* Interested mostly in the discussion.

    Thanks.

    *For some reason I can't get sim-craft to import from Chardev. It fails every time which means I can't swap trinkets between sims while out of the house.

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