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  1. #341
    For Frost, if Cha-ye gets a crit multiplier based on the spell that critted rather than Character Sheet crit rate, it makes me wonder if NT would result in a lower proc rate than Frost Bomb. Reason being there are a lot more low-crit-chance NT crit events which dilute the high-crit-chance IL/FFB crit events.

    eg. with 20% crit, 0 haste, assuming one NT tick crits and frost bomb doesn't

    T=0: Crit event, no proc
    T=5: NT crit event, proc chance=0.8085 * (1+0.2) * (5-0)/60 = 0.08
    T=10: Ice lance crit event, proc chance=0.8085 * (1+0.9) * (10-5)/60 = 0.13
    Total proc chance over 10 seconds =~ 0.13 + 0.08 = 21%

    vs.

    T=0: Crit event, no proc
    T=5: Frost bomb non-crit
    T=10: Ice lance crit event, proc chance=0.8085 * (1+0.9) * (10-0)/60 = 0.26
    Total proc chance over 10 seconds = 26%
    Last edited by Tickspoon; 2013-04-12 at 08:22 PM.

  2. #342
    Quick question: For Frost I just got the 502 Woo and the 476 Relic, should I replace the Relic with the Volatile, or would my VP be better spent elsewhere?

    Armory link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...leria/advanced

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    Quick question: For Frost I just got the 502 Woo and the 476 Relic, should I replace the Relic with the Volatile, or would my VP be better spent elsewhere?

    I would replace Relic first and then the neck piece second. I used Volatile with 522 Wushoo until I got a 522 Breath of the Hydra to replace Volatile with. Now I'm debating on which trinket I should trade for Cha-ye, Wushoo or BotH.

  4. #344
    picked up LFR Unerring Vision (502).
    I have the shadow pan assault and relic (unupgraded).
    for fire, should I switch out one for Unerring?
    And what about for frost? Is it useful?

  5. #345
    Warchief gutnbrg's Avatar
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    I currently have Essence of Terror(N), Volatile Talisman of the shadopan and Relic of Yu'lon upgraded 2/2. Which 2 should I have equipped for the best benfit? My armory is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gutnbrg/simple

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by gutnbrg View Post
    I currently have Essence of Terror(N), Volatile Talisman of the shadopan and Relic of Yu'lon upgraded 2/2. Which 2 should I have equipped for the best benfit? My armory is http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...gutnbrg/simple
    Relic and Volatile Essence is decent but many people have fits with its proc chance it has a nasty habit of not procing regularly for some. On top of that Relic is stronger than it anyhow and volatile is just nasty for how easy it is to get.
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  7. #347
    This might have been answered somewhere earlier in this thread but since it's coming up on 350 posts and don't have time to read through it all...

    Which combination of 528 Hydra, 522 Cha'Ye and 522 Wusho do you reckon would be the best for frost (ilvl 520)? Not trusting purely sims on this since I'd like some input on how it feels in regards to reliability etc. based on how frost plays in general.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Delath View Post
    This might have been answered somewhere earlier in this thread but since it's coming up on 350 posts and don't have time to read through it all...

    Which combination of 528 Hydra, 522 Cha'Ye and 522 Wusho do you reckon would be the best for frost (ilvl 520)? Not trusting purely sims on this since I'd like some input on how it feels in regards to reliability etc. based on how frost plays in general.
    I'd obviously use BoH, it's TFed and has static haste. Out of the other two, I think it's close but Wushoolays is better.

    Edit: Curently using Heroic TF BoH and Heroic Wushoolays and I'm liking them so meh.
    Last edited by Jaylol; 2013-04-18 at 06:56 AM.

  9. #349
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delath View Post
    This might have been answered somewhere earlier in this thread but since it's coming up on 350 posts and don't have time to read through it all...

    Which combination of 528 Hydra, 522 Cha'Ye and 522 Wusho do you reckon would be the best for frost (ilvl 520)? Not trusting purely sims on this since I'd like some input on how it feels in regards to reliability etc. based on how frost plays in general.
    Pretty sure that for Frost Wushoo's will be better than Cha'Yes. Frost can easily get "maximum" benefit from Wushoo's, the reason why it's harder for Fire is because of Combustion. BoH no question.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Pretty sure that for Frost Wushoo's will be better than Cha'Yes. Frost can easily get "maximum" benefit from Wushoo's, the reason why it's harder for Fire is because of Combustion. BoH no question.
    Just curious. How does Frost benefit more from Wushoo's?

  11. #351
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    Just curious. How does Frost benefit more from Wushoo's?
    Because Frost doesn't have a conditional ability that requires buildup - Combustion.

    They technically both benefit from Wushoo's the same amount, but with Frost there's no crucial ability that requires buildup and would benefit from the latter part of Wushoo proc. Build a Combustion as Fire with the beginning portion of the proc, it'll be weaker than if you built it with Cha'Ye or BoH, but build a Combustion with the latter part and it'll be "marginally" (realistically I think we're talking ~3K Int, so I think a lot) better. But, this conditional factor makes Wushoo's troublesome for Fire as you can't always reap the maximum benefit from it.

    You don't have those issues as Frost.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Because Frost doesn't have a conditional ability that requires buildup - Combustion.

    They technically both benefit from Wushoo's the same amount, but with Frost there's no crucial ability that requires buildup and would benefit from the latter part of Wushoo proc. Build a Combustion as Fire with the beginning portion of the proc, it'll be weaker than if you built it with Cha'Ye or BoH, but build a Combustion with the latter part and it'll be "marginally" (realistically I think we're talking ~3K Int, so I think a lot) better. But, this conditional factor makes Wushoo's troublesome for Fire as you can't always reap the maximum benefit from it.

    You don't have those issues as Frost.
    Ah OK. Thanks.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Pretty sure that for Frost Wushoo's will be better than Cha'Yes. Frost can easily get "maximum" benefit from Wushoo's, the reason why it's harder for Fire is because of Combustion. BoH no question.

    Hmm I was under the impression that Cha'ye was BIS for frost mage because its procs snapshot off crit chance, and hence have high proc time for frost mages when FoF/ BF were up?
    Last edited by lockdnloaded; 2013-04-18 at 12:55 PM.

  14. #354
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockdnloaded View Post
    Hmm I was under the impression that Cha'ye was BIS for frost mage because its procs snapshot off crit chance, and hence have high proc time for frost mages when FoF/ BF were up?
    It's just that BotH has haste on it over crit, and our DoT is up the whole time, where there's times we don't have procs.

    Wushoolay's is just disgustingly good for frost because you can sit on a FoF for the 9th/10th charge once it procs. That's in addition to DoT snapshotting.

  15. #355
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Personally I prefer Cha'ye more than Hydra... The proc is up way more often than the hydra trinket. More than double the time actually which it should be.

    Wusholays on the other hand is pretty nice. Especially if you can alter time the proc at 16 sec or so with 2 FoF and a Brain Freeze proc up.

    Still having a hard time betwenn hydra and Cha'ye thought...

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    It's just that BotH has haste on it over crit, and our DoT is up the whole time, where there's times we don't have procs.

    Wushoolay's is just disgustingly good for frost because you can sit on a FoF for the 9th/10th charge once it procs. That's in addition to DoT snapshotting.

    Good point Kuni, but what about Dot uptimes. Is it true that Cha ye dot uptime is a lot larger because of FoF/BF and hence provides more of a buff on average, while having a higher probability to be up when FoF/BF is up , hence your BF/FoF will be much stronger?

    PS. cant wait for a half decent trinket. 1/13 HC now, and still sitting on VP 522 trinket and relic of yulon

  17. #357
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockdnloaded View Post
    PS. cant wait for a half decent trinket. 1/13 HC now, and still sitting on VP 522 trinket and relic of yulon
    Wait for it We have not looted any caster trinkets and caster rings since 5.2 in ToT. Only 2 trinkets with bonus roll. Cool. Reminds me of 5.0 raids...

  18. #358
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    So what happens if I have an H LotC, N BoH, and N Cha-Ye for Fire? Seeing as Unerring and Wushoolay aren't ideal for Fire (well, Unerring for ANY Mage specc because it's absolute garbage), which two would be best?

    BoH is an upgraded LotC, so I'm planning on going that, and I LOVE my Cha-Ye, but ffs, that 10s duration just absolute kills it for me... It's a wonderful trinket, especially with its huge ~2.4% Crit passive, but... ugh, LotC is just so consistent and wonderful, even if it is half the power...

    Still can't decide on this

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  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    So what happens if I have an H LotC, N BoH, and N Cha-Ye for Fire? Seeing as Unerring and Wushoolay aren't ideal for Fire (well, Unerring for ANY Mage specc because it's absolute garbage), which two would be best?

    BoH is an upgraded LotC, so I'm planning on going that, and I LOVE my Cha-Ye, but ffs, that 10s duration just absolute kills it for me... It's a wonderful trinket, especially with its huge ~2.4% Crit passive, but... ugh, LotC is just so consistent and wonderful, even if it is half the power...

    Still can't decide on this
    I currently run Cha/BoH on most fights and fights where I will be constantly dotting a few targets (Council/Tortos Hc spring to mind, might try primordius this week) I use Wushoo (Only because it is Hc). The uptime can be quite high and with constant doting around - it's a really nice trink.

    I'm getting quite decent uptimes (or at least it feels it, anywhere from 25-50+%) on Cha-ye's and with the static crit - I wouldnt swap it out either way

    Edit: My problem is having quite a bit too much hit with wushoo. My only gripe with it atm.

  20. #360
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utsegi View Post
    I currently run Cha/BoH on most fights and fights where I will be constantly dotting a few targets (Council/Tortos Hc spring to mind, might try primordius this week) I use Wushoo (Only because it is Hc). The uptime can be quite high and with constant doting around - it's a really nice trink.

    I'm getting quite decent uptimes (or at least it feels it, anywhere from 25-50+%) on Cha-ye's and with the static crit - I wouldnt swap it out either way

    Edit: My problem is having quite a bit too much hit with wushoo. My only gripe with it atm.
    Wushoo's going to our Lock first so I'm not even considering it, and I'd LOVE more Hit because then I can recover some of my lost Haste and push the second Haste plateau

    I was pretty much planning on Cha/Breath because LotC, while super good and has a great uptime, is just too weak compared to the newer trinkets , but I still feel like in some scenarios, it can beat out the higher tier counterparts.

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