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  1. #1
    High Overlord
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    "Should I Be Kind, or Rude?"

    All CREDIT to Girlsgonewow, who posted this on the official forums. Link to Original Post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7909591279

    I thought it was pretty apt these days, but wonder if its a view that's agreed with, shunned or just met with indifference.

    It's quite long, but like I say, worth the read.


    Let’s cut a deal. You read this entire post, and I’ll let you play with my Ragnaros n00bz marine. Deal? Great! Let’s move on. First off, tell me this: can you feel the love tonight? Probably not, and I can’t either. Suppose you were to ask, "why should I be nice in this game"? Let's get right to the point - you don't. However, that doesn't mean you should turn around and act like an idiot towards everybody else. I can guarantee you that the majority of players have a thing or two negative to say about the community as a whole. Why is this? I mean, why do people act a certain way that makes people think this? Modern society causing us to act against it? Lack of concern, or care? House invaded by revolutionary farm animals? Whatever the cause is, one thing we can agree on is that it is virus that needs to be removed. Can we do anything about it? If you’ve already asked yourself that, then maybe a solution is possible.

    You might even have made your own attempts, but I’m sure that even with your good intentions that a lot of you are still adding to the issue. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to be some ultra PC liberal hippie that thinks the world should be filled with flowery things, gumdrops, and ice cream. But, is it too much to ask that we make some effort to make this game safer for players - so that they don’t have to become weary of and consciously avoid using features put into the game that involve us interacting with each other? I don’t think it is.

    Everyone is becoming increasingly aloof, and that pulls us away from those who would otherwise be considered friends. People who we share at least one thing in common with: gaming. The internet has a tendency to take the worst interpretations of anything that is said. How could it not? They are just cold words on a computer monitor, and we read them off from our own point of view. This is where the problem occurs, and I believe I’ve managed to isolate some of the major causes and possible solutions. Advice, if you will - which you can choose to heed or not. I’m aware that I’m just some random player you don’t know or care about that probably spends too much time thinking about this stuff. You don’t have to tell me what’s obvious, or perhaps what only matters to one of us, where it shouldn't matter to either of us. This brings me to my first point.

    4. You can make it without the attitude.

    Problem: Let’s say that you’re running a dungeon with a random group. One person says something completely innocent, and the other shoots back with what they probably think is a witty repartee! It isn’t. Now, I see this kind of thing all the time, but I’ll give you a little example about what I mean.

    [Party] [Purplederple]: sorry about screwing up on the trash, blanked for a minute lol
    [Party] [Coolguy]: im glad you find your failure so funny. i bet you laugh at your rusted out 1983 volkswagon as well

    Advice: See that? I can make up stuff like that too. It’s not hard. Look, even if you’ve had a crappy day, or if you’re just in a bad mood, does it really make you feel better to vent your frustrations in this overly aggressive way? Worse yet, if you’re being hateful just for the sake of being hateful. It’s senseless. When you confront a person like this, you’ve already reached the point of no return in most cases. You two will never like each other ever again. It does not matter that you probably will not meet them again. Neither of you deserve poor treatment. Why? Consider this: every time you act rudely to another person this way, you likely aren’t just affecting them. You are affecting all the people that surround that person. If you made a silly comment because you are “just sick of them”, you have just justified my argument. They get PO’d and do something that worsens someone else’s mood, and that little spitball of negativity begins a very bad cycle. What does it amount to in the end? Do you feel good about yourself? Or is the reality that you don’t care at all? If you don’t, you aren’t off to a good start with displaying it. That brings me to my next point:

    3. Concerning Trolljobs

    I know that it’s like a forbidden cult ritual to go out and talk about trolls (I mean internet trolls), but follow me on this one. Is this activity that amusing? Think about what you are doing for a moment.

    Problem: You are saying something provocative to solicit a response out of another person. It does not matter if you really mean what you say, or if you are made a fool in front of the whole community. You got your attention, so you have won. Nothing else matters. It’s such a bizarre method of communicating with other human beings. But what is worse than the people who troll? The people who know they are trolls and still respond.

    Advice: How do you make it so that you never get trolled again? You just follow two steps.
    1. If you read something you don’t like, and you decide that the person is crazy, move on.
    2. There’s no step two.

    {◕ ◡ ◕}
    See how easy that was?

    Back when the kids at school put the “kick me” signs on people, you tore them off and threw them in the garbage. You didn’t go back to the pranksters and explain to them why you didn’t want to be kicked. It’s the same deal here, only you don’t have many options to get back at them. Since you don’t, the best option is to just be the bigger man and to walk away. No matter how much it irritates your sensibilities, don’t perpetuate what they are trying to do and control yourself. Decide that you are having too good of a time to let them on your nerves. Finally, I’d like to know if you’ve ever heard this growing up: “don’t argue with an idiot, he will drag you down to your level and beat you with experience.” The moment you begin hurling uncalled for insults against a person for any reason and forget what the discussion was in the first place, you are no better than them.

    2. Don’t throw things out of proportion.

    I could have written something like “stop crying about everything, nobody cares” for this one, but I would have already contradicted myself.

    Problem: Try to realize when you use excessive amounts of hyperbole, it complicates and exacerbates things to levels where the situation becomes worse for everyone. It goes without saying that Blizzard can’t fix your problems if you aren’t providing constructive criticism. This is a big one for me, because I think nowadays people are so caught up in what they feel towards certain things that it clouds their perspective. For example, we don’t dislike things any more. We HATE them. THEY ARE BAD AND SHOULD FEEL BAD. Hate is a strong word, and we’ve used it to such an extent it barely holds any meaning now. You probably say “I hate you” as a joke more often than an as exhibition of emotion meant to be taken literally. Let’s take it a step further. Let’s pretend I have a few issues with CRZ and the forums.

    MVPs are condescending and pretentious charlatans that exist only to fight with the Blizzard Defense Force. The mindless sheep who follow them will never realize that they have wasted all their time and hard earned cash playing this game that is not the least bit fun anymore.

    Advice: You see that? Are any of those things true? No, they aren’t. But you can still understand what how this person feels, but you don’t care how they feel because they’ve decided to word it in such an annoying manner. I understand that relentless inquiries or rants can get exhausting. I also understand these things are a dime a dozen. There is no good reason to get caught up in each one. This works the other way, too - I remember before in my slightly less fortunate days when I didn’t have a working refrigerator, and my entire family was squeezed into a one bedroom apartment. I was describing it all to someone I knew and he responded like this: “it could be worse. You could be homeless. Just deal with it.” Wow. Okay, so I’m not homeless! At least not yet - I still can’t keep any of my food preserved, though. Who the hell are you to underplay my issues, anyway? You haven't taken a moment to try and look at things as if you were in my shoes. I'm the one who experienced it, and you sit there and tell me that my problems don't hold any weight? I'm not really that upset about it, but my point stands. If someone feels a certain way towards the game, don't tell them that "things could be worse." One quote from Theodore Roosevelt sums it all up: Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care. The lesson here is, don’t overreact, don’t write with such a fervent hostility, and focus on what is being said. Acknowledgement is always a good thing as well - try to understand where the other person is coming from. You are capable of it, I promise. Still with me? Okay, one more to go.

    1. Smile.

    Problem: Alright, I won’t pretend I know a thing about you or the circumstances about which your station in life is. Still, one fact holds true no matter what. We play this game because there is something about it that brings us back. It is the fun factor. It’s really such an obvious point to make, yet it's the hardest thing to persuade people to do at the same time. If there is any single thing keeping you from enjoying the game you shell out the cash for month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year, it's either time to quit or time to move ahead.

    Advice: Kick back and relax. It’s just you, the game, and maybe some other folks that tag along. Try to understand, I’m not someone who has a problem with whether or not a person wants to be skilled at the game, or against healthy competition, but some of you take it too far. For instance, I was once part of a guild where when we raided, a few of the members were constantly at each other’s throats over who was doing more DPS. It was really a bit unsettling and even got a bit intense at times when they started attacking each other. There is nobody that obsesses how many points you earn every time you outperform your peers, or, god forbid, how many times you “humiliate” them. On the forums, no one is keeping score over who gets the most clever one liners or stupid impulses they act on. If there are, they are likely insecure punks that need serious hubris deflation. If you are overly concerned with how people will think of you every time you log on, then you might want to consider re-evaluating who you are around. Move on, play, and smile.

    But it goes beyond that. One player on these forums posted a topic a while ago calling anyone present to a challenge to do random acts of kindness. A noble act, but we don’t need to be challenged to do this. It’s not asking for much. Be the guy who compliments you on your hard earned mount, or carefully crafted t-mog. If you see some new player struggling to kill an elite mob he shouldn’t have picked a fight with, blast that mob’s lungs out. Just as you can start a cycle of bad behavior, so can you brighten up someone’s day with barely any effort.

    So what right do I have to question people? I don’t. I’m not going to be a hypocrite. I’ve went against all these points at least once while playing, and have said some things to some players here that I know turned their disposition against me. You know who you are, and I know you can read this. I am truly sorry. I hope you can find it in your heart to make amends with me. Back to the topic at hand, I hold that you should be the change you want to see in the world. I’m not saying that to be cliché either - I don’t expect anyone to run into Stormwind/Orgrimmar and hug bomb people and write mission statements for their guild. And no, what I listed aren't the only issues and ways to deal with them either. The key idea is to change how you approach and look at these situations. All it takes is one little change of habit to get things rolling in a more positive direction. Even if this entire post gets buried under a mountain of that same ignorance it seeks to destroy, it is worth trying. I acknowledge that this won’t reach most of the WoW playerbase, but that isn’t the point. If we are going to be a gaming community, and we are all a part of one whether you like it or not, we might as well be the best damn one we can be.

    ○ Here’s the bottom line: don't be so afraid conduct yourself with a shred of decency every now and then. We have to remain aware of the fact that we are all still real people behind these keyboards and monitors. Valentine’s day is soon. You know what? Forget about it. Tomorrow is a new day. My players, move forward and connect with each other a little bit more, we don't need a holiday to tell us when to show some love. I know that after all is said and done, after every single one of you reading that is able and willing becomes ready to step up, this is when it begins. One day at a time. Let’s do it.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Raelys; 2013-02-14 at 08:12 PM. Reason: Link to OP
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Now every expansion, Blizzard releases a new class, or 2 new races into the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nirawen View Post
    Why would someone create malware for a mac? Is there a black market for photo albums of cats and half written novels?

  2. #2
    MVPs are condescending and pretentious charlatans that exist only to fight with the Blizzard Defense Force. The mindless sheep who follow them will never realize that they have wasted all their time and hard earned cash playing this game that is not the least bit fun anymore.

    Advice: You see that? Are any of those things true? No, they aren’t. But you can still understand what how this person feels, but you don’t care how they feel because they’ve decided to word it in such an annoying manner
    ^favorite quote^

    good read, I enjoyed it.
    Gamers are too obsessed with the death of games. Imagine if all that energy was channeled into the LIFE of games.

  3. #3
    I'm glad a blue replied to it. The post needs to be shared across the internet, to all communities everywhere.

    Disagreeing is fine, even disliking someone. It's simply impossible to be friends with everyone in the world, we're all far too different for that. At the same time though, it's entirely possible to be CIVIL to everyone. The saying 'If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all' springs to mind here.

    It all starts with a small step. To not react to that douche in LFR/LFD. To refuse to stoop to their level. And on a more positive note, simply complimenting someone on their great DPS/healing/tanking. To say something nice. To spread a bit of positivity.

    It honestly can be a chain reaction. Be nasty to someone, they enter a bad mood. They're nasty to someone else, that person is in a bad mood, etc. etc. But it works the other way too: compliment someone, be nice, and they'll be in a good mood to be nice to someone else. Etc.

    It just takes a small step to start with, but it could make such a difference in the long run. We can be a better community if we just try.

  4. #4
    the only times i really rude to people in the game is if A they are complaining about something trivial when we are still doing fine and basically just causing drama. or B when someone picks on someone else or complains about "go fasta" or "you all fails" but is either last on the meters or is a bad tank in which case i pretty much say "shut up and stop complaining you get the right to complain about how the run is going once you start contributing more" i especially get pissed off if someone starts teasing someone about bad dps or heals or something if i look and see that they have bad enchants or gems or something and basically the only reason the other guy is doing bad is because he doesnt have good gear yet but atleast knows what their doing
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  5. #5
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    I'll be a bitter voice of reality here: Not nearly enough people will care about the content of this post enough to directly change their behaviour in game or out of game for longer than two weeks.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  6. #6
    It's a great post. The only issue I see is that it is a call to rationality and civility made primarily to an audience that is neither susceptible to or willing to be either of those things. It might be a positive factor for people who straddle the border and only indulge in such behavior due to some kind of internal peer pressure - but for the majority of these types of people I'm afraid it will just fall on deaf ears.
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  7. #7
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    I'll be a bitter voice of reality here: Not nearly enough people will care about the content of this post enough to directly change their behaviour in game or out of game for longer than two weeks.
    Whilst I feel myself agreeing, I feel that the biggest issue in changing the community is that it's too pessimistic and negative for its own good. The only way a change like this could happen, on a large scale, is if people actually gave it a chance, rather than just assuming it won't work.

    Two examples:

    1#: Nope won't work -> Won't bother -> Nothing happens.

    Compared to at least the bare minimum of effort;

    2#: Pfft, could work I guess -> Tries -> Will have some effect.

    Multiply this by 'x' amount of people and you may actually see some change. Of course, then it'll be all about how long that will last, etc. So ultimately, I can see why example 1 is the most widespread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Now every expansion, Blizzard releases a new class, or 2 new races into the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nirawen View Post
    Why would someone create malware for a mac? Is there a black market for photo albums of cats and half written novels?

  8. #8
    I fear that the folks who are targeted through said post are the same who will not read said post.

    The message of the piece gets lost in the length.

    But they're right. There's way too much condescending in PuGs.

    I tend to just not say anything and report it. If the GMs address the said people about their behavior (though I have some skepticism whether that actually occurs), it might make them think twice before harassing someone else.

  9. #9
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelys View Post
    Whilst I feel myself agreeing, I feel that the biggest issue in changing the community is that it's too pessimistic and negative for its own good. The only way a change like this could happen, on a large scale, is if people actually gave it a chance, rather than just assuming it won't work.

    Two examples:

    1#: Nope won't work -> Won't bother -> Nothing happens.

    Compared to at least the bare minimum of effort;

    2#: Pfft, could work I guess -> Tries -> Will have some effect.

    Multiply this by 'x' amount of people and you may actually see some change. Of course, then it'll be all about how long that will last, etc. So ultimately, I can see why example 1 is the most widespread.
    Yeah, I was going to underscore my post with a "But if it helps just one person, was it worth typing out?" to which I would probably say, yes - yes it was.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  10. #10
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    I'll be a bitter voice of reality here: Not nearly enough people will care about the content of this post enough to directly change their behaviour in game or out of game for longer than two weeks.
    I don't know. It brings to mind South Korea and the change in the community there over that poor warrior.



  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dvaldin View Post
    I fear that the folks who are targeted through said post are the same who will not read said post.

    The message of the piece gets lost in the length.
    It's basically "Be more positive in life". And I wish I could be positive all the time. I would be much happier. Pretending to be positive just...nah.

  12. #12
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    I don't know. It brings to mind South Korea and the change in the community there over that poor warrior.
    Yeah, I recall the thread. Did much tangibly change, though? That's not a rhetorical question, it's genuine. Has much changed and remained changed?
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  13. #13
    Well, he's as right as one can be, isn't he. I never act rude or like a jerk in the game, period. But I sure can be an occasional jerk on the internet, and I don't think anyone can claim they never are. Can be fun, but actually it's always idiotic. It's really like that old saying - arguing over the internet is like Paralympics; even if you win, you're still retarded.

    That Girlsgonewow dude got me thinking for a second. Next time some total idiot comes blaring at me with some petty little BS, I should just let him be retarded, drop a {◕ ◡ ◕} and walk away. Peace ya'll.
    Last edited by Pull My Finger; 2013-02-14 at 03:47 PM.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    although I agree with your concept in my experience the majority of players that are noticable do quite the oposite. only the quiet masses that you never really even know are there, which I believe is a majority adhere to any kind of moral standards. the voluable few make it appear acceptable to do or say things that in real life would most likely land you on your butt.







    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  15. #15
    Epic! schwank05's Avatar
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    I made it to about the 4th paragraph, I want a prize. basically don't be a douche is that what I get from the post? In all reality what is the point I play this game for friends and to hang out with them. I really don't even care that much for wow anymore, but my friends play it so I use it to stay in touch with them and have fun laughing with them in vent. I really could care less about someone I don't know possibly in a different country.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer judgementofantonidas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I made it to about the 4th paragraph, I want a prize. basically don't be a douche is that what I get from the post? In all reality what is the point I play this game for friends and to hang out with them. I really don't even care that much for wow anymore, but my friends play it so I use it to stay in touch with them and have fun laughing with them in vent. I really could care less about someone I don't know possibly in a different country.
    and there it is. "i could care less about someone I don't know". pretty much the same as e-muscle and people making threats they could never back in real life. because it is the internet people choose to do unacceptable things.







    Lawful good does not always mean Lawful nice

  17. #17
    More pertinently, he's missed the point. The article acknowledges that you won't necessarily care about these people you don't know - but makes the perfectly valid point that you should be nice to them anyway.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    I how saturated the OP's quote is with irony. He complains about people being "increasingly aloof", while smugly proclaiming that he has "isolate some of the major causes"of why people aren't nice on the internet, and even that he has "possible solutions"! He complains about other people's attitude, and mocks their attempts at wit, while writing one of the most needlessly verbose, condescending (while lamenting how people aren't nice...), and smartass posts I've seen in a while; a good half of the words could've easily been removed without impacting the message being conveyed.

    His "advice" are also face-palmingly obvious shit at best. Did any of you really need to be told that being aggressive for aggression's sake is a bad idea? Did that blow your mind? Do you think pointing out that that's a problem, for the ten billionth time, is going to change anything? More advice, like ignore trolls? Don't blow things out of proportion? Overuse of hyperbole dimnishes the impact of strong words? Have a positive attitude? Such brilliance (ow shit, sarcasm and hyperbole wrapped up in one, and I'm hostile too)!

    We should put him on TV and have him tell us to eat healthy and exercise more, no dubt it'd end the obesity epidemic in one fell swoop...

    Though the best part, for me, was the final point, the one about smiling. We play this game for fun. He was tantalizingly close to saying something interesting there, but veered off into self-indulgence land yet again, without bothering to make any real effort to understand why different types of people interact poorly with one another. If he'd actually touched upon how something like how different people have fun for different reasons in this game, and talked about how the different groups don't respect each other at all, it might've almost been a little interesting. Instead, he (again, ironically) proceeds to dismiss those who have fun for different reasons than himself as unworthy of respect, and proceeds to rant about how much those people suck, an advocating that, essentially, you shouldn't be nice to them... couldn't make this shit up if I tried.

    Then again, maybe the irony was intentional, and he's in fact a troll (whic also would be ironic, because he isn't being treated as one), but it seems unlikely.
    Last edited by Simulacrum; 2013-02-14 at 04:32 PM.
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  19. #19
    For me, I try to remember this when I'm online: "Character is who you are when no one can hold you accountable for your actions". I want to be a man of upstanding character, so I do my best to live like that. Better than being defined by the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    *snip*
    Also ironic is the fact that in a way, you're the person who should really take some of the stuff he said to heart. It's all there: the "attitude", the autotelic antagonizing, the party-pooper syndrome where none of it had any purpose or function - reflexive dissenting and negativity you could perfectly do without. Perhaps you see for yourself how impossible it was for you to avoid it. Why be the guy who farts in the crowded room? Why the compulsive need? Just why so miserable, dude?

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