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  1. #1

    Haste overvalued?

    As the title says, i have been seeing some top guild hunters going haste -> crit -> mastery and i wonder why?
    Is it really better?
    Looking at WOL the top hunters still go crit -> haste -> mastery and the majority of fights in TOT has alot of AOE in them and the last time i checked crit and mastery still was the winners when it comes to AOE.
    So why do so many go full haste?
    I read this at battle.net, is there any truth in it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Battle.net
    Haste will never reach Crit aside from a Patchwerk simulation due to shot cycles and Haste plateaus only existing on said Patchwerk sims. They do not exist in real time application. This causes sims to overvalue Haste.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Depends a LOT on your gear, even with all the RPPM stuff. A few upgrades ago Haste was about 100 DPS better than Crit for me, now Crit wins by about 800. Crit is still the safest route to go, crit is better than haste for AoE fights also.

    And yes, Haste is only slightly better in absolute stand still fights(Only fight like that I can think of is Jin'rokh in this tier on a lucky day of no sparks chasing you)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Depends a LOT on your gear, even with all the RPPM stuff. A few upgrades ago Haste was about 100 DPS better than Crit for me, now Crit wins by about 800. Crit is still the safest route to go, crit is better than haste for AoE fights also.

    And yes, Haste is only slightly better in absolute stand still fights(Only fight like that I can think of is Jin'rokh in this tier on a lucky day of no sparks chasing you)
    ...What? All fights are 100% "stand still"-fights for hunters. You can do everything on the move. You're not dependant on standing still to do damage. In which possible way could standing still allow haste to surpass crit? Just... What?

  4. #4
    I think he meant having full uptime on the boss? Sparks chasing you causes you to go out of range. And depending on the strat for lightning storm, you might dodge on the grates while being out of range as well.

    If not then.. Idk.
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  5. #5
    I go haste > crit > mastery for every single fight. I have some pretty nice parses to show for my effort, too.

  6. #6
    The Patient kallekaka's Avatar
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    Hastes effect on RPPM trinkets = yoloswag proc rate.
    And Id say if Devai goes haste u go haste

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kallekaka View Post
    Hastes effect on RPPM trinkets = yoloswag proc rate.
    And Id say if Devai goes haste u go haste
    Devai actually was scolded at for being bad this tier in Paragon. Also playing in a world top guild does not mean they are the best in theorycrafting stuff.

  8. #8
    I honestly don't even understand what the quoted guy is saying. I mean, he clearly wrote some words down and arranged them in sentence form, but past that I've never heard of anything he's talking about.

    I'm not saying that Simulationcraft is always 100% right and the only thing anyone should ever use to theorycraft, but 95% of the time when someone disagrees with it they can't come up with a convincing reason why. It's usually either someone who expects you to take his opinion at face value with no real proof or someone who did some kind of muddled analysis on a very specific thing (ironically enough, usually in Simcraft) and then uses it to say Simcraft is wrong.

    Back to the question though, it's useless if you don't mention the spec in question. SV is still crit>haste and BM is haste>crit. Due to the mechanics of each spec the nature of the fight doesn't really matter.

  9. #9
    After I went full haste I saw a noticeable increase on Lei-Shen heroic. I was planning to make a long detailed post in a past topic where Kennyloggins and some other people convinced me to try the haste build after we downed Lei-Shen. Unfortunately we are having some small hiccups and very close wipes for the past 2 days.

    I'm going to hold off on giving a definite answer and writing a nice post, but on Lei-Shen heroic specifically it's definitely been worth it.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rusk View Post
    As the title says, i have been seeing some top guild hunters going haste -> crit -> mastery and i wonder why?
    Is it really better?
    Looking at WOL the top hunters still go crit -> haste -> mastery and the majority of fights in TOT has alot of AOE in them and the last time i checked crit and mastery still was the winners when it comes to AOE.
    So why do so many go full haste?
    I read this at battle.net, is there any truth in it?
    Wait what? I'm pretty sure the top hunters on WOL goes for haste > crit. Sure, there might be more people going crit > haste in top 25 but at the very top the last time I checked, the majority went with haste > crit.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaving View Post
    I go haste > crit > mastery for every single fight. I have some pretty nice parses to show for my effort, too.
    Same here. Just looking at your gear. You do haste > exp on an item instead of crit > exp, is it intentional - if so, why?

  12. #12
    The Patient Varum93's Avatar
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    for AoE fights like Tortos what is better stat weight Crit or Haste and is mastery even considered

  13. #13
    If you remember from last tier all the BM stat weights were insanely close together. With RPPM having a higher value Haste now sims above Crit for Patchwerk and 4 Target Patchwerk for me (528 ilvl). I could reforge crit for Survival AoE to come out ahead but there's really no need to because all the fights where it's worth playing Survival this tier your DPS doesn't matter and it's much more worthwhile focusing your damage where it's actually needed. Unless you go full retard mode padding, in which case no one cares because you just went full retard for a rank that means nothing.

    Haste > Crit > Mastery for me does fine. I can consistently get 95+ percentile for every boss where the logs matter (Durmu, Qon, Normal Consorts) but do I care about my DPS on Tortos? No.
    Last edited by Glurp; 2013-06-04 at 04:25 AM.

  14. #14
    The new blink strikes is the primary reason haste has gotten so good for BM. Not really much more to it than that. The effect that haste has on RPPM values isn't quite as huge or dramatic as people make it out to be.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    The effect that haste has on RPPM values isn't quite as huge or dramatic as people make it out to be.
    That gave me a good laugh.

  16. #16
    Haste was better than Crit at high item levels before this version of Blink Strikes even came out.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    The new blink strikes is the primary reason haste has gotten so good for BM. Not really much more to it than that. The effect that haste has on RPPM values isn't quite as huge or dramatic as people make it out to be.
    Haste was the best stat for bm even before blink strikes, it just made it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    The effect that haste has on RPPM values isn't quite as huge or dramatic as people make it out to be.
    There is actually a noticeable difference in everything haste affects.
    Last edited by Tehstool; 2013-06-04 at 05:38 AM.

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  18. #18
    single target sv with all rppm, haste>crit?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Danshot View Post
    single target sv with all rppm, haste>crit?
    http://simulationcraft.org/

  20. #20
    The Patient Varum93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehstool View Post
    Haste was the best stat for bm even before blink strikes, it just made it better.



    There is actually a noticeable difference in everything haste affects.
    what is the stat priority for SV AoE?

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