Reqfu's MoP Windwalker BiS list & Theorycraft

[Deleted]

Wanted to add that speaking with other monks that are also raid testing at a high level, CDR is proving to be very, very valuable due to how it reduces the amount of haste we need and the greater amount of FoFs and EBs that we can fit in (SoO itself is proving to have several fights where a very skilled player can fit FoF into nearly every fight, other than Dark Shaman (at which point we may want to grab a different trinket for that fight specifically).

Also it might be a good idea to rethink the Offset Piece. The first design started with the idea of playing with around 9k haste. But it seems right now that playing with a lower amout of haste and more mastery is giving better results. Starting from that point I would guess that there are at the moment to many Items with haste in the list. With that in mind I would believe that the Legs (Riou's Vigilant Leggings) are a better offset piece.

[Crevan]

I agree with a legs offset piece, but for a different reason. Every tier piece apart from the legs has only red sockets (legs have 2 yellows). Now, at first glance you'd think that 2 yellow sockets are better than 2 blues, until you realise that there's a surprising lack of accuracy stats on SoO gear. The gear set in the OP has zero hit rating, 804 expertise and 1 blue socket. We will be gemming and reforging for accuracy in 5.4, so I expect that blue sockets will be more valuable than the yellow ones.

[Requital]

Also it might be a good idea to rethink the Offset Piece. The first design started with the idea of playing with around 9k haste. But it seems right now that playing with a lower amout of haste and more mastery is giving better results. Starting from that point I would guess that there are at the moment to many Items with haste in the list. With that in mind I would believe that the Legs (Riou's Vigilant Leggings) are a better offset piece.

Yup already been toying with the changes on PTR, the biggest issue right now is there is no definitive " this is what we need to work with " there is just a lot of guessing and testing going on. Right when we thought we nailed something they change it to make us look for something else. With all the bugs between the 4PC and us still being somewhat unsure.

I'll rework the profile this week but I'm not going to build a reforge profile since technically we will be back at a point where people will play with what feels good to them.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with a legs offset piece, but for a different reason. Every tier piece apart from the legs has only red sockets (legs have 2 yellows). Now, at first glance you'd think that 2 yellow sockets are better than 2 blues, until you realise that there's a surprising lack of accuracy stats on SoO gear. The gear set in the OP has zero hit rating, 804 expertise and 1 blue socket. We will be gemming and reforging for accuracy in 5.4, so I expect that blue sockets will be more valuable than the yellow ones.

It really doesn't matter if the set has 0 hit/Exp rating on gear you can reforge into it. You want to avoid overages while giving yourself the largest amount of the highest secondary stat which overall is still crit. Red -> Yellow -> Blue will pretty much always be the socket value. You can certainly use the legs if you feel they are the best offset piece I'm not going to twist your arm.

Things to note you can't take a blue socket and say it's worth more because of Hit, When you are getting a proper value with gear and gemming stats that have a cap are never worth the full value. The best way to get a true value of Hit is the reforge value for Hit not the uncapped value.

This tier leaves a lot of room and freedom for gear clearly Blizzard realized the error of their way with everyone being over the Hit and Exp caps and they decided to stay away from that this time.

5 PC T16



4 PC T16 + Legs



4 PC + Helm



Helm is still maximizing Critical Strike and it's still going to be the offset piece I stick with until I hear that Critical Strike isn't the top priority, Mastery is going to be whatever is left after you find a good haste point.

[Crevan]

The reason using blue sockets is slightly superior to plain reforging is that it allows for finer granularity. It's easier to arrive at or close to 2550 rating if you have smaller chunks to play around: a gem will have 160 hit rating, the minimum reforge on a heroic SoO item will be around 320. The benefit here is not huge, but it allows for more flexibility than simply using reforges. Plus, with the offset helm you're trading a red socket for a yellow one - again, minor but still a loss.

[Deleted]

Yup already been toying with the changes on PTR, the biggest issue right now is there is no definitive " this is what we need to work with " there is just a lot of guessing and testing going on. Right when we thought we nailed something they change it to make us look for something else. With all the bugs between the 4PC and us still being somewhat unsure.

I'll rework the profile this week but I'm not going to build a reforge profile since technically we will be back at a point where people will play with what feels good to them.

That's exactly the same what annoys me the most at the moment. It's the same situation as with 5.2 when everyone has known how to play with RoRo ... but what shall we do until we have it?

At the moment it's even worse. Because even with specific gear in Mind (AoC, 4PC) there is no exact way to go with. Not speaking from day one when you start with T15 Gear...

[Requital]

The reason using blue sockets is slightly superior to plain reforging is that it allows for finer granularity. It's easier to arrive at or close to 2550 rating if you have smaller chunks to play around: a gem will have 160 hit rating, the minimum reforge on a heroic SoO item will be around 320. The benefit here is not huge, but it allows for more flexibility than simply using reforges. Plus, with the offset helm you're trading a red socket for a yellow one - again, minor but still a loss.

If you look at the main page you will see



You can see that the gear without any reforges is pretty close to the Hit and Expertise caps, The Cloak enchant I might change back to Critical Strike it will depend completely on how soon an accurate reforging tool can see the gear.

[Greencap]

Using Reqfu's list, but using Hellscream's Cleavers as weapons and TEB instead of AoC, I managed to create a profile that puts us in a reasonable position compared to the other profiles which have already been created (though I think the profiles from the other classes are far from perfect still):



I don't think I managed to get the most out of it yet, but I'm also not sure how good simcraft is simulating windwalkers at the moment. It still seems to really like haste & ascension. In this profile I'm running 12k Haste + Ascension (I didn't manage to make it sim higher using Chi Brew). No matter what I do, AoC is always a huge DPS loss when simming with it.

The profile I used:

#!./simc 

monk="Monk_Windwalker_T16H"
level=90
race=orc
role=attack
position=back
professions=engineering=600/alchemy=600
talents=http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#fb!201221
glyphs=touch_of_death/touch_of_karma/blackout_kick/zen_flight/water_roll
spec=windwalker

# This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character.
# It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable,
# while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps.
# Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs.
# SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists.

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=spring_blossoms
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/stance,choose=fierce_tiger
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/virmens_bite_potion
actions.precombat+=/chi_brew,if=talent.chi_brew.enabled

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=auto_attack
actions+=/chi_sphere,if=talent.power_strikes.enabled&buff.chi_sphere.react&chi<4
actions+=/virmens_bite_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/chi_brew,if=talent.chi_brew.enabled&chi<=2&buff.tigereye_brew.react<=18,line_cd=45
actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up&buff.ticking_ebon_detonator.react
actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up&buff.vicious.react
actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up&buff.blood_fury.react
actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up&buff.dancing_steel.react&buff.dancing_steel_oh.react
actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up&(buff.tigereye_brew.react>19|target.time_to_die<20)
actions+=/use_item,name=grips_of_seven_sacred_seals,if=buff.tigereye_brew_use.up
actions+=/energizing_brew,if=energy.time_to_max>5
actions+=/rising_sun_kick,if=!target.debuff.rising_sun_kick.remains
actions+=/tiger_palm,if=buff.tiger_power.down
actions+=/invoke_xuen,if=talent.invoke_xuen.enabled
actions+=/run_action_list,name=single_target,if=active_enemies<5

actions.single_target=rising_sun_kick
actions.single_target+=/fists_of_fury,if=energy.time_to_max>4&buff.tiger_power.remains>2&cooldown.rising_sun_kick.remains>2
actions.single_target+=/chi_wave,if=talent.chi_wave.enabled&energy.time_to_max>1
actions.single_target+=/blackout_kick,if=buff.combo_breaker_bok.react
actions.single_target+=/jab,if=talent.ascension.enabled&chi<=3
actions.single_target+=/jab,if=!talent.ascension.enabled&chi<=2
actions.single_target+=/blackout_kick,if=(energy+(energy.regen*(cooldown.rising_sun_kick.remains)))>=40
actions.single_target+=/tiger_palm,if=(buff.combo_breaker_tp.react&energy.time_to_max>=2)|(buff.combo_breaker_tp.remains<=2&buff.combo_breaker_tp.react)

head=hood_of_blackened_tears,id=104413,upgrade=2,gems=capacitive_primal_80agi_160haste_180agi
neck=gleaming_eye_of_the_devilsaur,id=105602,upgrade=2
shoulders=spaulders_of_seven_sacred_seals,id=99395,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=200agi_100crit
back=fenyu_fury_of_xuen,id=102248,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_60agi,enchant=180hit,addon=goblin_glider
chest=tunic_of_seven_sacred_seals,id=99396,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_160agi_160agi_180agi,enchant=80all,reforge=mastery_haste
wrists=laser_burn_bracers,id=105505,upgrade=2,enchant=180agi
hands=grips_of_seven_sacred_seals,id=99392,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=170mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii,reforge=mastery_haste
waist=cord_of_black_dreams,id=105635,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_80agi_160haste_160agi_120agi,addon=nitro_boosts
legs=leggings_of_seven_sacred_seals,id=99394,upgrade=2,gems=80agi_160haste_80agi_160haste_120agi,enchant=285agi_165crit
feet=stonetoes_tormented_treads,id=105431,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_60mastery,enchant=140agi
finger1=ring_of_restless_energy,id=105558,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_60crit,reforge=mastery_haste
finger2=reality_ripper_ring,id=105451,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_160hit
trinket1=haromms_talisman,id=105527,upgrade=2
trinket2=ticking_ebon_detonator,id=105612,upgrade=2,reforge=mastery_crit
main_hand=hellscreams_cleaver,id=105685,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=dancing_steel,reforge=mastery_haste
off_hand=hellscreams_cleaver,id=105685,upgrade=2,gems=160agi_160agi_120agi,enchant=dancing_steel,reforge=mastery_haste

[Saltycracker]

That looks pretty good, thanks for diving in.

I would put Chi Wave way down the list just above Tiger Palm, as it doesn't spend chi and therefore doesn't generate TEB stacks.

Personally I don't plan on using FOF much until I get 4pc T16 due to the chi proxy. I don't know if it would be worth it to create two lines for FOF in the action list, one with and without the 4pc.

You nailed it though, Simcraft will always love more haste and ascension because it can play very close to a 60 GCD/min rotation, where a human plays a 56-58 GCD/min rotation. It's hard to sandbag SimC just the right amount to get an accurate representation of our performance.

[Gulvan]

@Salty Isn't Xuen still broken in SimC too?

[Greencap]

The thing is that even if you factor in movement or lag, simcraft still prefers haste (to a certain degree) and it is certainly not playing at 60 GCD/min then.

Chi Wave is actually a big thing in our rotation (according to simcraft anyhow). If I put it lower our simulated DPS goes down. In all honesty though, it doesn't seem to matter a lot what our rotation is like. Changing it (other than not keeping up RSK, TP maybe) never results in a +/- DPS change of more than 1%.

[Saltycracker]

@Salty Isn't Xuen still broken in SimC too?

Yea, and as far as I can tell, SimC isnt parsing the Wowhead tooltip correctly. I might be blowing smoke, but I submitted a ticket to Wowhead to correct the tooltip a couple weeks back.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=123996
http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=123996

I think there is a parenthesis rather than a bracket in there.

If people want to tweet/message/harrass WoWhead people about it, it would help.

- - - Updated - - -

The thing is that even if you factor in movement or lag, simcraft still prefers haste (to a certain degree) and it is certainly not playing at 60 GCD/min then.

Chi Wave is actually a big thing in our rotation (according to simcraft anyhow). If I put it lower our simulated DPS goes down. In all honesty though, it doesn't seem to matter a lot what our rotation is like. Changing it (other than not keeping up RSK, TP maybe) never results in a +/- DPS change of more than 1%.

And I think it is correct in doing so. Until we get 4pc and AOC haste is our best stat up to resource cap. SimC definitely does overvalue it compared to what it is actually worth, especially when you are doing it right and spending GCDs on survivial cooldowns, SEF, and other things.

[Hinalover]

Yea, and as far as I can tell, SimC isnt parsing the Wowhead tooltip correctly. I might be blowing smoke, but I submitted a ticket to Wowhead to correct the tooltip a couple weeks back.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=123996
http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=123996

I think there is a parenthesis rather than a bracket in there.

If people want to tweet/message/harrass WoWhead people about it, it would help.

Hate to say this but....the PTR numbers look correct when looking at the SimC sc_spell_data_ptr.inc file

  { "Crackling Tiger Lightning"         , 123996, 0x00, 0.000000, 0x08, 0x200, 0x000, 10,  0, 0.5050000,   1,  0,     0.0, 50000.0,       0,    0,    0,         0, 0x0000,   0,   0,   0,  0, 0x00000000,       0, 0.000,    0, 0x00000000, 0x00000000,     0,     0, 20,  1.0000000000,  0,      0, { 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x40000200, 0x00000001, 0x00000000, 0x00800000, 0x00000000, 0x00000200, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0 }, "$@spelldesc123904", 0, 0, "ability_monk_cracklingjadelightning", 0, 0, 0, 0 }, /* 156720 */

0.5050000 is the AP modifier which is correct

  { 156720, 0x00, 123996,  0, E_SCHOOL_DAMAGE             , A_NONE                                     ,  0.2930000126,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,     0,     0.0,    10.0,       1,       0,       0,     0, 1.000000,   0.0, 0.000,  0, 0, 0 },

0.2930000126 is the Spell multiplier to the lvl 90 Class Scale Modifier (1094.739746093750000 [see https://code.google.com/p/simulation...a_ptr.inc#256]) or 320.7587593991896 base damage

  { 156723, 0x00, 123999,  0, E_APPLY_AURA                , A_PERIODIC_TRIGGER_SPELL                   ,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  1000,     0.0,     0.0,       1,       0,       0, 123996, 1.000000,   0.0, 0.000,  0, 0, 0 },

1000 is the milliseconds when it attacks

However, when comparing the values to the live values, WoWhead IS incorrect. The values in the live spell data is giving values closer to what they are on the PTR with the only difference being the 5 seconds between attacks on live and the 1 second on PTR.

  { "Crackling Tiger Lightning"         , 123996, 0x00, 0.000000, 0x08, 0x200, 0x000, 10,  0, 0.5050000,   1,  0,     0.0, 50000.0,       0, 1000,    0,      5000, 0x0000,   0,   0,   0,  0, 0x00000000,       0, 0.000,    0, 0x00000000, 0x00000000,     0,     0, 20,  1.0000000000,  0,      0, { 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x40000000, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0x00800000, 0x00000000, 0x00000200, 0x00000000, 0x00000000, 0 }, "$@spelldesc123904", "Taking $m1 damage every $t1 sec.", 0, "ability_monk_cracklingjadelightning", 0, 0, 0, 0 }, /* 156720 */

  { 156720, 0x00, 123996,  0, E_APPLY_AURA                , A_PERIODIC_DAMAGE                          ,  0.2930000126,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  1000,     0.0,    10.0,       1,       0,       0,     0, 1.000000,   0.0, 0.000,  0, 0, 0 },

  { 156723, 0x00, 123999,  0, E_APPLY_AURA                , A_PERIODIC_TRIGGER_SPELL                   ,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  0.0000000000,  6000,     0.0,     0.0,       1,       0,       0, 123996, 1.000000,   0.0, 0.000,  0, 0, 0 },

[Greencap]

He still only sims at 1/3rd of live though, while he should actually do more dps now

[Hinalover]

Only thing I can think of is that

E_SCHOOL_DAMAGE             , A_NONE

part of the sub-spell data info is f'ing up SimC since before it had

E_APPLY_AURA                , A_PERIODIC_DAMAGE

and needs to be fixed or Salty hard-code the damage until it can be fixed properly. Before it just said it was a periodic damage, now it is defining it as elemental school damage.

Another thought is that on live the lightning was channeled every 6 seconds for 5 seconds with each tick of the channel hitting every 1 second and that is why it was not working before. Which begs the question if haste affects then channel (I think it does) and if that channel works on PTR to gain extra ticks. This can easily be tested if the at the following haste points if the number of ticks are hit:

4229 - 50 ticks
5173 - 51 ticks
6155 - 52 ticks
7063 - 53 ticks
8006 - 54 ticks
8984 - 55 ticks
9937 - 56 ticks
10859 - 57 ticks

[Saltycracker]

Hina, right now on live as far as I understand, Xuen applies a dot to three nearby targets that ticks. PTR they changed Xuen to just pulse damage that strikes three nearby targets but at the same periodicity as the live DOT, so you are correct that he does and will scale with haste.

I stared at it for an hour or so, but I'm not familiar enough with the spell structures and types in SimC to model it correctly. I thought Calli and Ennix were working on it, but it might just be something we need to submit a ticket with the higher ups at SimC to correct.

[Callimonk]

Hina, right now on live as far as I understand, Xuen applies a dot to three nearby targets that ticks. PTR they changed Xuen to just pulse damage that strikes three nearby targets but at the same periodicity as the live DOT, so you are correct that he does and will scale with haste.

I stared at it for an hour or so, but I'm not familiar enough with the spell structures and types in SimC to model it correctly. I thought Calli and Ennix were working on it, but it might just be something we need to submit a ticket with the higher ups at SimC to correct.

You are correct. Perhaps this weekend I can try to hardcode it in. He pulses vs. having a DoT now. In addition to which, SimC pulls the data for Xuen automatically from WoWhead.

[Callypso]

Maybe I missed a few things during my holiday the past week, but this BiS list seems to focus on haste/crit. How significant is the increase of performance of this setup compared to a haste/mastery build? (when I went away I that was simming highest afaik)

[Callimonk]

Maybe I missed a few things during my holiday the past week, but this BiS list seems to focus on haste/crit. How significant is the increase of performance of this setup compared to a haste/mastery build? (when I went away I that was simming highest afaik)

Basically, it's very easy to get high mastery. You can almost effortlessly have around 50-60% mastery without hardly trying.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, this might be a pointless post but I just wanna thank you for all the work that you put in to this.

PS. I consider you guys the rocket scientists of WoW, It's absolutely mindblowing what you can conclude from all this "shit" to help out a poor guy like me lol.

[Professor Hurt]

You are correct. Perhaps this weekend I can try to hardcode it in. He pulses vs. having a DoT now. In addition to which, SimC pulls the data for Xuen automatically from WoWhead.

I posted about this yesterday here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post22312494

So, small bug. I'll try and check in the fix sometime this weekend once I figure out how

As far as his behavior in 5.3, I wouldn't bother debugging it (if there's even anything wrong).